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Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
ringo
Member
Posts: 13884
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 496 of 571 (786263)
06-19-2016 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 494 by Phat
06-18-2016 3:23 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
Phat writes:

Nobody likes a know-it-all if the know-it-all uses their wisdom to belittle others.


Does that sound like Anybody you know?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 494 by Phat, posted 06-18-2016 3:23 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 06-23-2016 3:15 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 497 of 571 (786545)
06-23-2016 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 496 by ringo
06-19-2016 2:05 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
Not really.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by ringo, posted 06-19-2016 2:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 498 by ringo, posted 06-23-2016 12:40 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13884
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 498 of 571 (786569)
06-23-2016 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 497 by Phat
06-23-2016 3:15 AM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
Doesn't, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God," sound like belittling to you?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 06-23-2016 3:15 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by Phat, posted 06-26-2016 4:32 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 499 of 571 (786731)
06-26-2016 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 498 by ringo
06-23-2016 12:40 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
in order for God to be truly great, it only makes sense that everyone else pales by comparison. You want to have the same abilities as god has without having earned nor learned them..

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by ringo, posted 06-23-2016 12:40 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by ringo, posted 06-26-2016 3:06 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13884
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 500 of 571 (786748)
06-26-2016 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 499 by Phat
06-26-2016 4:32 AM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
Phat writes:

You want to have the same abilities as god has without having earned nor learned them..


On the contrary, I just want to be left alone to use the abilities I have as I see fit, without the threat of eternal damnation.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by Phat, posted 06-26-2016 4:32 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 06-26-2016 4:08 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 501 of 571 (786757)
06-26-2016 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by ringo
06-26-2016 3:06 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
OK, so this in essence proves my assertion that I made to Theodoric.
Phat writes:

There are some who would prefer that there be no God. There are others who wish fervently that it were so.


Theodoric writes:

So you going to stick with this?

This whole idea of "wanting to be left alone" seems to me to be a common theme among the two categories that Theodoric brought up.

Gnostic Atheist - Knows there is no god and does not believe either
Agnostic Atheist - Concedes has no knowledge there is no god, but has no belief or reason to believe there is.
Seems you have this irrational idea that even if god existed he would likely be mean and demanding...thus why not just leave humans alone to responsibly evolve into their own destiny?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by ringo, posted 06-26-2016 3:06 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by ringo, posted 06-27-2016 12:07 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13884
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 502 of 571 (786790)
06-27-2016 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 501 by Phat
06-26-2016 4:08 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
Phat writes:

This whole idea of "wanting to be left alone" seems to me to be a common theme among the two categories that Theodoric brought up.


Wanting to be left alone is not the same as preferring that there was no God. I also want you gun-toting Americans to leave me alone. That doesn't mean I'd prefer that you didn't exist. I just want you to keep your violence away from me.

Phat writes:

Seems you have this irrational idea that even if god existed he would likely be mean and demanding...


It isn't my idea. I'm just going by your description.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Phat, posted 06-26-2016 4:08 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 503 by Phat, posted 06-28-2016 10:44 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 503 of 571 (786889)
06-28-2016 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by ringo
06-27-2016 12:07 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
I can see where you would rationally conclude that you had more common sense and wisdom than any given "gun-toting" American. To assume that you have more wisdom at running your own life than a Creator of all seen and unseen...however....is hubris at best.

You can easily reject a God improperly described and defined by others. What you would be wise not to do, however, is to reject the actual GOD...

What makes you think that humans can get along better without GOD?

Seems to me your only evidence comes from other fallible and imperfect humans.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by ringo, posted 06-27-2016 12:07 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 504 by Asgara, posted 06-28-2016 10:57 PM Phat has responded
 Message 506 by ringo, posted 06-29-2016 12:49 PM Phat has responded

  
Asgara
Member
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


(1)
Message 504 of 571 (786890)
06-28-2016 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by Phat
06-28-2016 10:44 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
Try reading your last sentence again.

Seems to me your only evidence comes from other fallible and imperfect humans.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by Phat, posted 06-28-2016 10:44 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 505 by Phat, posted 06-28-2016 11:34 PM Asgara has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 505 of 571 (786891)
06-28-2016 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 504 by Asgara
06-28-2016 10:57 PM


Subjective Experience
I suppose that could be considered a tad ironic!

For me personally, I dont count on evidence...I favor subjective experience. I also gather subjective experience of other humans....so i suppose I'm as guilty as i accuse ringo of being.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Asgara, posted 06-28-2016 10:57 PM Asgara has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13884
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 506 of 571 (786926)
06-29-2016 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by Phat
06-28-2016 10:44 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
Phat writes:

To assume that you have more wisdom at running your own life than a Creator of all seen and unseen...however....is hubris at best.


Why? If there was intelligent life in the universe even slightly more advanced that us, would you think they could determine our interests better than we can ourselves? They'd be more likely to exterminate us like Indians and take our resources.

Phat writes:

What makes you think that humans can get along better without GOD?


I just consider not being eternally incinerated "better". Call me crazy.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by Phat, posted 06-28-2016 10:44 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by Phat, posted 06-29-2016 4:04 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 507 of 571 (786945)
06-29-2016 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by ringo
06-29-2016 12:49 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
If there was intelligent life in the universe even slightly more advanced that us, would you think they could determine our interests better than we can ourselves? They'd be more likely to exterminate us like Indians and take our resources.
Which supports the argument that all life in general is at its core selfish. The whole point of the Bible story is not that of a GOD who incinerates us. (unless you are again being the public defender for satan and the fallen rebellious.)

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by ringo, posted 06-29-2016 12:49 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 508 by ringo, posted 06-30-2016 12:10 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13884
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 508 of 571 (786989)
06-30-2016 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Phat
06-29-2016 4:04 PM


Re: Riddle me this and Google me that!
Phat writes:

The whole point of the Bible story is not that of a GOD who incinerates us.


Incinerates us, floods us, lets us be enslaved by the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Romans, and on and on. You seem to be snipping out a lot of the Bible to determine the "whole" point.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Phat, posted 06-29-2016 4:04 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by Phat, posted 07-01-2016 12:12 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 509 of 571 (786997)
07-01-2016 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 508 by ringo
06-30-2016 12:10 PM


Being Obedient Is Good For Everyone
In each of the examples you mention, the people brought it upon themselves. They were either disobedient, worshiping idols, or flat out evil. Care to comment?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by ringo, posted 06-30-2016 12:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 510 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-01-2016 12:22 AM Phat has responded
 Message 512 by jar, posted 07-01-2016 8:36 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 513 by ringo, posted 07-02-2016 12:27 PM Phat has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 510 of 571 (786998)
07-01-2016 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 509 by Phat
07-01-2016 12:12 AM


Re: Being Obedient Is Good For Everyone
I just want to be disobedient. Am I destined for hell?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by Phat, posted 07-01-2016 12:12 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 511 by Phat, posted 07-01-2016 12:51 AM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

  
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