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Author Topic:   Bible Question: What was the First Sin?
Rei
Member (Idle past 7042 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 60 of 312 (60914)
10-14-2003 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Rrhain
10-13-2003 7:52 AM


Re: litte off subject
quote:
quote:
And....is the serpent an acutal serpent? or is it another name for Satan.
No.
Satan does not go about on his belly.
That one made it into my quote book. Best quote all week.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Rrhain, posted 10-13-2003 7:52 AM Rrhain has not replied

Rei
Member (Idle past 7042 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 65 of 312 (61130)
10-16-2003 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by phil
10-15-2003 10:58 PM


Re: litte off subject
Job seems to be (edit)newer(edit) than Exodus at the very least - for example, " He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through Rahab" (Rahab is a name Egypt is frequently called). I've seen a lot of claims that it is the oldest than the pentateuch , but no evidence to back it. One thing that is interesting is the presence of Satan. Satan appears between 2nd Kings and 1st Chronicles - by replacing something that God had done in Kings (God had caused a census there; in Chronicles, Satan did it). Between Kings and Chronicles was the Babylonian captivity, so it seems that he was introduced at that time.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."
[This message has been edited by Rei, 10-16-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by phil, posted 10-15-2003 10:58 PM phil has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by John, posted 10-16-2003 10:18 AM Rei has replied

Rei
Member (Idle past 7042 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 69 of 312 (61205)
10-16-2003 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by John
10-16-2003 10:18 AM


Re: litte off subject
You didn't address what I said - I stated that I've seen a lot of claims that it is the oldest, but not a single piece of evidence, and there seems to at least be a reference to the exodus in it - in addition to the presence of the character Satan, who doesn't show up otherwise until the Babylonian captivity, where earlier stories get changed by adding in his presence.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by John, posted 10-16-2003 10:18 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Prozacman, posted 10-16-2003 6:38 PM Rei has not replied
 Message 72 by John, posted 10-17-2003 1:16 AM Rei has not replied
 Message 74 by Rrhain, posted 10-17-2003 10:48 AM Rei has not replied

Rei
Member (Idle past 7042 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 77 of 312 (61568)
10-19-2003 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by phil
10-18-2003 9:39 PM


Re: litte off subject
quote:
Once again I do not see any indication of this. If you could provide some proof or at least something supporting this idea, I would greatly appreciate. Also, if I come across a bit harsh, I apologize, but I tend to get that way when someone makes wild assumptions and insults my intelligence (or at least that how I took it).
For starters, do this yourself: Search the bible for "Satan" - you can use the Bible Gateway for this. Don't use NIV, because NIV changes the text very heavily from the originals to attempt to iron out contradictions and overall make it more suitable for a modern audience (I don't know if they've changed this particular part). You'll find it in 1st Chronicles. Now, this is parallel to another passage - it is a retelling of history. Look up the parallel passage in 2 Kings. Then come back and tell us what you think.
Chronicles was from after the Babylonian captivity and the freeing by the Persians; Kings was from before.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by phil, posted 10-18-2003 9:39 PM phil has not replied

Rei
Member (Idle past 7042 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 90 of 312 (63169)
10-28-2003 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by phil
10-28-2003 5:56 PM


Re: litte off subject
quote:
The Bible to me is ONE work of art, whereas many view it as a "compilation" of books discussing God
You don't seem to get it. The Bible *is* a "compilation" of books discussing God. The Canon was only closed when Constantine ordered 50 Bibles printed - it was open for change for 300 years. Some early Christians working on the project actually argued for the omission of the Old Testament all together. Some gospels were included. Some weren't included. Some, such as the gospel of Thomas, were not even known about at the time because the gnostics (another early Christian sect, but not the one that went on to found the Roman Catholic Church) were in hiding.
It's hard for many Christians to accept, but creating what we know as the bible actually involved things like debate and bargaining - and this is just when the final collection of texts were put together. Earlier Jewish books, such as the Septuagent, were compiled from conflicting earlier texts by a team of 70 Rabbis; it's due to this why you see some parts of the bible that seem to repeat themselves in different times, places, or with different people (Moses has several of these).
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by phil, posted 10-28-2003 5:56 PM phil has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by phil, posted 10-28-2003 10:02 PM Rei has not replied

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