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Author Topic:   The Gap Theory Examined
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 60 of 130 (221931)
07-05-2005 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Jor-el
07-05-2005 1:27 PM


Re: Logos
Jor-el
The only real way to reconcile the facts that are well known in Astronomy, Geology and Biology and the Bible text are to accept a division between the 1st and 2nd verses of Genesis, with an unkown ammount of time passing between the 1st and 2nd verses.
Hello Jor-el,would you care to point out which well known facts of astronomy,geology,and biology are reconciled within the Genesis verses of the bible? Please specify which facts you suppose match the verse you assert to be relevant.

Nature uses only the longest threads to weave her patterns, so each small piece of her fabric reveals the organization of the entire tapestry

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Jor-el, posted 07-05-2005 1:27 PM Jor-el has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Jor-el, posted 07-05-2005 4:35 PM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 89 of 130 (223338)
07-12-2005 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Jor-el
07-05-2005 4:35 PM


Re: Logos
Jor-el
1. The universe has an age of at least 10 billion to 20 billion years.
2. The galaxies in the universe are at this moment expanding and have been doing so since the matter which they comprise coalesced into these galaxies.
3. The big bang theory states that the universe came into existence through an explosion that created all the matter in the universe.
See The Big Bang Theory
Biology:
1. Fossil records state that life existed on this planet as long ago as 3.5 billion years ago.
See Origin of life on earth
Geology:
1. Tectonic shift and sedimentation show the relatively old age of the earth.
And the bible verses where these observations are recorded?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Jor-el, posted 07-05-2005 4:35 PM Jor-el has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Jor-el, posted 07-12-2005 2:31 PM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 93 of 130 (223546)
07-13-2005 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Jor-el
07-12-2005 2:31 PM


Re: Logos
Jor-el
Sidelined, as you must surely know there is no verse in the bible with these "scientific facts".By examining the gap theory we can correlate these facts with the word of God.
You are saying that the facts of science and the word of God are mutually related while st the same time saying there are no such "facts" in the bible.I am confused?
Earlier in this topic you stated and I quote
As I was explaining to randman, Verse one of Genesis is seperated from verse two by an unkown ammount of time which could be millions if not billions of years long.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
This means then that the Earth was created in the beginning.Then a vast amount of time passed {millions or billions} yet this is in conflict with the big bang since the Earth was not formed "in the beginning".
Also intriguing is the statement about the sirit of god moving upon the face of the waters on a planet earth which at the same time was without form and void.How do you accomplish this?
Since God inspired men to write the bible, we should try to understand what was written in light of present knowledge especially in the case of Genesis since it conveniently interpreted by many as a metaphor.
Who is the person who started this enduring little saying "God inspired men to write the bible"? Exactly how does one make this statement about a text in which anybody who has seen god dies and cannot have therefore given evidence of such an event.Any person who makes this statement cannot do so from eyewitness vantage.You can claim that it is written by men inspired by god only on faith and not on weight of evidence.
So far we have a failure to come even vaguely close to BB theory.
You previously stated
Fossil records state that life existed on this planet as long ago as 3.5 billion years ago
How is this to be derived from the bible?
Also this
Tectonic shift and sedimentation show the relatively old age of the earth
As can be seen most of these are facts other items are widely accepted theories. Genesis in my opinion doesn't contradict any of these facts in general but it does so in specifics
Are you saying that the validity of the bible is apparent in the lack of contradiction with science? Yet there are contradictions as I have pointed out and there are further ones within the book of genesis as well as other biblical verses that show a distinct lack of understanding of the actual workings of the universe.That a book does not contradict something does not mean you can therefore use this as an arguement for a position.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Jor-el, posted 07-12-2005 2:31 PM Jor-el has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Jor-el, posted 07-13-2005 6:31 PM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 97 of 130 (223740)
07-14-2005 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Jor-el
07-13-2005 6:31 PM


Re: Logos
Jor-el
I didn't state that the earth was immediately created from Genesis 1:1 but that all matter in the universe was created and process continued from there.
I did not say you stated this. The bible states that the earth was formed in the beginning{Genesis 1:1}. You cannot,therefore,argue that that the big bang and genesis are compatible since this is in clear disregard of the facts.The Earth came into existence billions of years after the universe from it was made.The gap itself is not suportable by reference to the bible for this very reason.
This message has been edited by sidelined, Thu, 2005-07-14 11:15 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Jor-el, posted 07-13-2005 6:31 PM Jor-el has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Jor-el, posted 07-14-2005 4:06 PM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 127 of 130 (228454)
08-01-2005 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Jor-el
07-14-2005 4:06 PM


Re: Logos
Jor-el
Since "the beginning" as stated can be period of any number of years, that statement alone covers Everything from the moment of true creation of the Universe (BB theory) until the moment of the recreation inwhich the earth, the sun and the rest of the physical universe already existed
This cannot hold true,since in the Genesis verses,
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
it is clear that the firmament { shamayim or heaven} is created after light and after waters.Days or billions of years maters little since the order is incorrect.Heaven{shamayim} was created in the first verse and therefore "in the beginning" refers to after the creation of light as explained in verses 1:2 -1:8.
Light was not created before all else now was it?

This message is a reply to:
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