Right Behavior Inherits Eternal Life

This thread is to examine the importance of right behavior in inheriting eternal life versus the faith-only doctrine. I don’t feel that the faith-only doctrine is completely supported Biblically.By right behavior, I mean doing what is legally and ethically right on a daily basis. I am not talking about “works” which I consider to be visible benevolent actions done for the purpose of impressing others, benefiting yourself or earning points with God.The word “works” is used interchangeably within the NT between the two ideas I gave above. Please differentiate between the two in this discussion.Many passages state we are saved by faith. But none say we are saved by faith only.Some passages show that faith alone won’t save. Others show that faith without obedience will not save. When asked by the rich man about what to do to inherit eternal life, Jesus does not mention faith.In his final comments in Revelations, Jesus also does not mention faith as being primary or solitary to inheriting eternal life. Jesus is very specific about the type of people who will be outside the city.As we have seen in various threads, it is very easy to exchange verses back and forth supporting each side.My goal with this thread is to share and learn. To really look at what the authors are writing and examine, if together, they truly support the faith-only doctrine or if obedience and good behavior are also required.Bible Study please.

The word "pistis" which is translated as faith in the NT is not a verb. The verb root of pistis is not translated as faith.It is possible to have a flute without practicing it, it is possible to have faith without practicing it.A flute without the action of a person playing it is dead, faith without the actions of a person demonstrating its principles is dead.I understand what you were trying to say, but I don't see the NT authors supporting faith to be an action word like love.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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Your assertion is remarkable in that faith is an action word in any other setting but not scripture.

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Faith is not an action word in any other setting. Faith, sex, and baby are all nouns.When you have sex, you experience the action of sexual intercourse.
Then you have a baby, you experience the action of child birth.Both of these are very specific actions that when you see them you know what the people or person is doing.Which definition do you feel defines having faith?What is the action that is associated with having faith?

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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The only occurrence of the words faith alone or faith only in the Bible is a denial of it. That should tell us something, don't you think?

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Totally.Interesting that Abraham is used to support the position in James and Abraham was also used by Paul to support his position.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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But for the record, I don't think Paul disagreed with James a bit on the necessity of works.

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I had a good answer yesterday, but it wouldn't post.This is also to MTW.IMO, each writer was inspired in what they wrote for their specific audience and purpose.Although Jesus didn't write anything, his teachings had a specific audience and purpose.Paul also had a specific audience and purpose. He audience was not the same one as that of Jesus.Although I don't think James actually wrote the work attributed to him, I feel it was someone passing on his teachings. Which is a different audience than Paul.Paul wrote to Gentiles, who did not know of or believe in the God of Abraham.Jesus and James spoke to Jews who did.If you've read the book by Tim Hegg call "The Letter Writer, Paul's Background and Torah Perspective" you can see Paul didn't step as far away from the Torah as some present.It takes some effort to work through the excess baggage laid on by time. It is an interesting journey though.That is what I'm hoping this thread might venture into. Trying to see what Paul was really trying to say to the Gentiles apart from what we have been told.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

Amen to Message 18!

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

Could you expand on what you consider salvation to be specifically, without using catch phrases?Salvation from what, salvation for who, salvation provided by who and when?

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

Paul seems to disagree with the Synoptics. So let’s examine the authentic Pauline Epistles (Romans, I and II Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, I Thessalonians, and Philemon).Was Paul, who was a Jew, teaching faith-only(as in believing-only) to the Gentiles?The Mosaic Law does not contain a command to believe. Faith is not commanded. Only actions are, obedience.Even though today we consider the act of faith to be believing, the act of faith in the Bible seems to be obedience.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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For the unsaved man, the man of Romans 7, all that the law brings with it is: sin and death. The law is great - if you are saved, if you are freed from what it meant when you were amongst the unsaved. Once saved from it, the law then becomes a pleasure to man. He can no longer be convicted under. The law, for a regenerate man, a saved man, is a tool of guidance. A guide and a foretaste of what it is to be fully holy. A tool which Paul immediately goes on to exhort us to apply.

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The Torah did not bring sin or death. Paul states that the Torah is holy, righteous, and good. There's not need to be saved from the Torah. What I understand is that the indwelling spirit saves us from being slaves of sin. The regenerational work of the spirit allows us to obey Torah and not be mastered by sin. Those who are in Christ Jesus would be obeying Torah because of the indwelling spirit.I don't see where Paul supports that believers can no longer be convicted for sinful behavior.The authentic Pauline epistles don't seem to address blanket forgiveness for sinning believers.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

I love it! I stick to Paul and you jump to Jesus.Since I was commenting on Romans, I'm sticking to the authentic Pauline epistles Message 48.

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No mater, a believer is freed from the penalties brought about by failure to adhere to the law.

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Please provide the scripture that supports this statement. As I said in Message 49Even though today we consider the act of faith to be believing, the act of faith in the Bible seems to be obedience. I'm talking about when the word faith is used. Pistis is not translated as believing or belief. So your verses don't address my statement.

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Take our old friend Zach the tax collector:

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Since this is Bible Study Forum we are actually looking at what the Bible says. Zach changed his behavior and became obedient. No mention of believing anything specific. His action was obedience or calling on the name of the Lord.I feel the rest of your comments are church rhetoric.Where does Paul support the rest of your comments?

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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Post-acknowledgment the Jesus is Lord. Belief that Jesus is Lord (quite specific) - then works.

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Since Zach was a tax collector, I wonder how many other people he addressed as Lord in his daily dealings. His actions conveyed his conviction, not his words.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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Faith without works is dead. It is not faith.

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Exactly!There was no statement of belief in the Zach story, but his actions showed his trust.Our actions are a manifestation of our convictions.In Romans, Paul supports that it is a packaged deal.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

Paul does not negate the need for right behavior in his letter to the Romans.This letter was written to specific people addressing specific situations in their cultural and historical setting, which BTW isn’t us. This letter does not support the faith only doctrine.Paul was a second Temple period Pharisee, Torah scholar and teacher. Paul was NOT the Jewish Messiah, Paul was NOT a disciple of the living Jesus, and Paul does NOT claim that what he writes are the words of Jesus. He does present his case from the Tanach and Oral Torah and that is the ruler by which we measure the accuracy of his reasoning.To understand Paul we need to attempt to understand first century Judaism and his audience. Not an easy task but still possible.Since Rome did not allow new religions, the Nazarenes (Jews following The Way) still worshipped and studied Torah through the Jewish synagogues. So Paul’s audience included Jews, Nazarenes, Converted Gentiles, Converting Gentiles, and Gentiles wishing to follow The Way. The Gentiles were not blank slates, they came bearing pagan baggage.Paul claims that the Good News reveals how God makes people righteous in his sight; and from beginning to end it is through trusting (believing) God as stated in the OT “But the person who is righteous will live his life by trust. (1:16-17) For it is not merely the hearers of Torah whom God considers righteous; rather, it is the doers of what Torah says who will be made righteous in God’s sight. (2:13)So since we have come to be considered righteous by God because of our trust (5:1) and our trust is manifested in our actions of right behavior (2:13), then when the day of judgment comes and each is paid according to his deeds (2:7-8), those whose actions have demonstrated trust in God by obeying his commands will not be condemned.The OT does not support that God gave his laws to increase sin or to show that we cannot follow them. In the OT God states that the command he gave them was not too hard for them, it was not beyond their reach. (Deuteronomy 30:11)Paul used himself as an example in chapter 7 personifying the battle of his good and evil inclinations within himself. Even though Paul may have problems mastering his evil inclinations, it doesn’t automatically apply to everyone.Paul does not negate the need for right behavior in his letter to the Romans.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

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I don't remember the word trust in the passage.

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Neither is the word believe in the passage. His actions showed his conviction.Zach was not following God's laws (sinner). He corrected his wrong behavior by giving to the poor and by making restitution to those he cheated. His actions demonstrate his trust in God by following God's commands.How does believing in a name manifest itself?I agreed that faith without deeds is dead. I'm not sure why you only wished to agree for a nanosecond.Other than I consider faith in Jesus to mean that you trust what he supposedly taught to be true concerning God so that you trust God and obey God's commands. This trust will manifest itself in right behavior based on God's commands.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-

You speculate one way, I speculate another way.Bottom line: The right behavior was still important.

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Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission. -Eleanor Roosevelt-