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Author | Topic: Right Behavior Inherits Eternal Life | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
I comfort my own fragile-conscience that my gospel-faith (not behavior) alone is evidence for my Salvation; provided:
1) I am a bankrupt-sin-wretch (Rom 7.24) that was "born again" into Christ's Spirit of Life (Rom 8.2): 2) ...am assimilated into Christ’s death burial and resurrection 3) ...and bear the marks of His Cross in me (Galatians 6) Rom 6:4-6 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. As a bankrupt-sin-wretch, at least 8 or 10 unique *spiritual laws* (below) "war in my members" so that my *free will* (if there be such a thing) seems completely obselete. Rom 3:27 By what LAW? of WORKS? Nay: but by the LAW of FAITH.Rom 7:2 For the woman ...the LAW of HER HUSBAND. Rom 7:22 I delight in the LAW of GOD after the inward man: Rom 7:23 I see ANOTHER LAW in my members (LAW of SATAN?? LAW of PRIDE??), warring against the LAW of MY MIND, and bringing me into captivity to the LAW of SIN which is in my members. Rom 7:25 ...with the mind I myself serve the LAW of GOD. Rom 8:2 For the LAW of the SPIRIT OF LIFE in CHRIST JESUS hath made me free from the LAW of SIN and (*LAW OF*) DEATH. Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the LAW of RIGHTEOUSNESS, hath not attained Also,LAW of Moses/Jews (Rom 10.5):, LAW of the Gentiles (Rom 2.14-15) LAW of Love (inferred by Rom 13.10) Technically, I view being able to exclaim: "I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to!" If Christ's spirit were saying that within me and not my sin. Thus for my "right-behavior(s)" somehow EARNING me Eternal Salvation, NO WAY! Its the cross-atoning-resurrection-gospel alone that I hope will save me.
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
James 2:17-26 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Surely, if I had saving faith it would manifest via works. Perhaps (visible) works are the stronger evidence of 'my faith'; but exercises of faith might also be strong evidence of 'my faith.
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
Exercises like *remembering beauties of holiness*, *remembering being born-again*, *remembering Christ's death, burial, resurrection, soon coming, etc., *focusing on so-called promises, risking charity (oops thats part-works), praying, loving God, loving *Christians, strangers, and/or neighbor* (silently in the heart).
I realize such faith isn't might not be all that unadulterated from works, but such works may seem somewhat invisible (to others).
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
Great response; I stand corrected...
But merely pleasing others (i.e., hypocracy and/or flattery) with *right behavior* (e.g., *showing my faith by my works* toward others only) deludes myself (and others) into *thinking I have (e.g., merited) eternal life* ...(while only God (methinks) merits (earns) eternal life).
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
"So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God (the law of God as spirit and unto life) and with the flesh, the law of sin (law of God as sin and death). Same position as pre-conversion but now no tension. A break has occurred. The man has been separated from the doomed mortal flesh in which sin dwells. Its still there, it will die, but he is not going down with it anymore. He's baled out in time. Jano; this strict divisional interpretation btw Rom 7 & 8 *sounds great*; the (legal?) "tension" of *sinful flesh* I'd reckon as "broken" (forever) in the man who is born into Christ's Spirit of Life. I won't refute this popular constrained view of Salvation. But consider Gal 5:17 (and surrounding verses): Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Am *I* always led of the Spirit (yeh I wish)? Or is "my fleshly pride" all too often puffed up ... telling me I can live like St. John Wesley. Gal 5:18 states: But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. As if to say, the "schoolmaster" (Heb 12.8) still slaps me betimes else I'm a "bastard". Am I not STILL wretchedly destitute of the glory of God (Rom 3.23), and judged as a sinner (Rom 3.7). In other words, "my fight of faith" seems far greater NOW and Rom 7 STILL seems to apply stronger than ever. I am a worm, period. ...Though I know its finished (John 19:3), and I'm forever saved by a non-divorcing Savior (Heb 13.5), and by his becoming (my) sin for me (2Cor 5.21), and have been "sealed" by the eternal Spirit, and received the "earnest of the Spirit" (2Cor 1.22).
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
Much as I would love to put you out of your misery Phil, you are not entitled to view yourself as a worm. OK, LESS THAN A WORM ... seeing Christ died and became my heinous sin (2COR 5.21) on my behalf. ... like wretched Lazareth (Luke 16.20)... I'm full of sores. Why are you flattering me anyway? Take a good look at 'my sores'! Now my "Right Behavior" is filthy rags as you can plainly see. Rev 3:17 clearly states: Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to (praise God)...I know my Redeemer lives (as wretched Job said (Job 19:25)... But scriptures everywhere stress humility and confession of sin. Even Paul calls it a FAITHFUL SAYING, and worthy of ALL ACCEPTATION, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS; of whom I AM CHIEF. (1Ti 1:15). Allow me then to faithfully call myself a wretched worm.
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
"Churches of God" statement of beliefs:
Thank you Iano for your thoughtful research into PD's "christian" web-site!Christ clearly did not consider himself God. To suggest that he was part of the entity to which he appealed, in an equal form, part of which was impassible, is absurd. (1) They also seem to infer Protestant Reformer John Calvin was a "Unitarian Islamic" or something#!?: "The great theologians (e.g. Calvin ...) agree that rational theism, Judaism, the Bible, and Islam are Unitarian." (2) ...And that Salvation is completely understood by (curiously) Jewish, Islamic, and/or Christian writings (without appealing to Voodoo): "...When all three books are read together, as they should be, understanding is possible and a complete plan of salvation emerges which cannot be misinterpreted." (#?@!) I'm not sure why they try so very hard to reconcile Islam-Jew-Xtian as one and the same religion ...i.e., without incorporating Voodoo-Devil worship (speaking as a Haitian) and (peradventure) some other non-Easteristic gods (i.e., beside Ashtaroth/Allah) in as well? Why not incorporate some other very popular gods into Salvation: Hari Krishna, Bhudda, the Pope and all his pre-Vicors, Brigham Young, John Wesley, the *unknown* atheist's-god, the N.A.S., and/or Saint Prick (Santa). Can such (Devil) worship also get me to Heaven (without any atoning gospel-faith in the Lord Jesus Christ's death for our sins, His burial, and His resurrection)? Can faith in Allah, Ishtar, or the Easter-bunny become real without the Gospel of Grace? These Islamic-Unitarians seem to have perverted the Gospel Plan of Salvation into carnal ordinances (as you've discovered), Phariseic academic minutiea, and enticing unitarianist compilations of sacred idolatry (idolatries of which Moses et al, all the biblical prophets, and the Lord Jesus Christ condemn in unison). And, Paul twice curses ALL such romish rubish (to hell, methinks) TWICE Gal 1:4-9 (Jesus Christ) Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto ANOTHER GOSPEL: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would PERVERT THE GOSPEL of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. ...so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. Bottom line: I still view the mechanism of my *Salvation-grace* seems to be the Lord-Savior alone and nothing resembling "my right behavior".
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
That church and their beliefs is not the point. PD, Iano (though I'm jealous to admit it) seems to me correct about it being a "preposterous idea" for a "slanted" Islamic/Jewish/Christian church (CCG) to speak of "works of the law", from a biblical stance. Also, I couldn't find "Works of the Law" that made any sense to me, either. My cat makes more sense about "Right Behavior and Salvation" than they do. Bible study (as per your request) seems less confusing at any rate.
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
Deut: Obey and I'll bless, disobey and I'll curse. Obey/disobey what. Laws of course."But ye are not under law ye are under grace" Notwithstanding God's omnipotent grace, Rom 2:7-9 and Rom 16:19 seem to commend obedience: ... To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life ... But unto them that ... do not obey ...indignation and wrath, ... Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil ... For your obedience is come abroad unto all men.
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
Ringo writes: To expand on jar's question: How do you recognize a Christian... Methinks, It's not clear-cut because hypocracy (*masking* one's true wretched self into something else) seems to exist to various extents in all human nature, especially, "hype-Christians": 2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light:
Furthermore: Paul mentioned "false-brethren unawares" (Gal2:4, etc.) Matt 13.25-32 seems to stress "wheat vs. tares" are difficult to discern. Nonetheless scriptures state: "Confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and/or Savior" (1John). "Loving fellow Christians" "Nice (gentlemanly) behavior" (as per Iano (above)) as fruits of the Spirit "Departing from iniquity" "Loving Jesus" (as per Iano) (might be recognized as a *Jesus-Freak*, or something)
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