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Author | Topic: Creationists as Hyperevolutionists? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lpetrich Inactive Member |
The Institute for Creation Research has responded to Hugh Ross's charge that young-earth creationists are "hyperevolutionists", because they believe in superfast evolution from the animals carried aboard Noah's Ark. However, ICR's response is that evolution within a "created kind" or baramin is not really evolution.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
lpetrich writes:
quote: And thus this argument is the, say it with me, "No 'True' Scotsman" fallacy. Basically, they're redefining "evolution" to be "changes across the 'kind/baramin' level" (while being steadfast in their refusal to provide a functional definition of a "kind" or "baramin") and thus any changes below that level are the "microevolution" they have to admit to lest they look like complete idiots. ------------------Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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lpetrich Inactive Member |
Do Creationists Really Believe in Evolution?, by John D. Morris
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Sonic Inactive Member |
The real question is, will organic evolutionists ever agree that they changed the meaning of theoretical from guess to educated guess?
Thank YouSonic
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Sonic Inactive Member |
Just edit your original post.
Thank YouSonic
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Sonic Inactive Member |
Micro-evolution extends out to speciation but stops before new abilites(i.e. macro evo) and is well proven. You look ignorant with your last post.
Thank YouSonic [This message has been edited by Sonic, 11-28-2003]
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Peter Member (Idle past 1507 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
You cannot changed a meaning from something that it
never was to anything else. Theory never has meant guess, and never will. The closest that you might get to a guess in science isa hypothesis -- and even that is not exactly a guess.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
Sonic, I would be careful about calling people ignorant. We have already shown that you didn't know what you were talking about when you started (that is you were 'ignorant'). You said new species didn't arise because that was macro-evolution which doesn't happen and now you have moved to agreeing that new species do arise.
We are getting back to where you started. We still don't know what the barrier is that stops this so called macro evolution from happening. We still don't know what you think it is. When is a change "vertical", what is "more" complexity? Now you have introduced "new abilities", what are they? It appears that you are ignorant of what you are saying (to say nothing of evolutionary science). Could you clarify all that?
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lpetrich Inactive Member |
I have no idea of what Sonic means by "new features".
Consider Felidae, the cat family, which some creationists consider a single baramin or "created kind". Feline species are solitary with one exception: Panthera leo. Lions live in groups (prides), and male lions grow manes, something no other feline does. Are manes and sociality lost in all other felines? Or did lions acquire them after they diverged from other felines? Lions are well-known for roaring; this feature is shared with other members of the genus Panthera: tigers and leopards and jaguars. Did the other felines lose the ability to roar or did the ancestor of the pantherines gain that ability after splitting off from other felines? The same can be said of other groupings that some creationists have considered baramins. Some creationists supposedly consider all bacteria to be a single baramin; bacteria have a remarkable variety of habitats and metabolic abilities, which would require a large amount of evolution from some ancestral bacterium.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Sonic,
Micro-evolution extends out to speciation but stops before new abilites(i.e. organic evo) and is well proven. When do I get the nod for my Nobel prize? New function (evolution of) is well documented. Hall (Hall 1982) knocked out the lac operon in E.Coli, only to see a new enzyme, a permease, & an expression control system evolve. That's a complex function evolving. Furthermore, it was over 20 years ago, showing that your statement above is false, & has been for at least 20 years. Why am I not surprised that creationists aren't told about this by their ministries of misinformation? Mark
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Sonic Inactive Member |
Ok,
Theory Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com Read part 4-6 on this definition you have to include those when we talk about theory. Yes those are compared to guessing. Thank YouSonic
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
No, we do not. Theory has a very definite meaning in the context of science. It maybe unfortunate that the same word is used for other things but that happens a lot.
It is NOT a guess. We can describe exactly how a theory is constituted and then invent a new word for it if you want. The definition game isn't going to get us anywhere.
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Sonic Inactive Member |
quote: Where is this at, I dont ever remember saying that when new species arise this is macro-evolution.
quote: I believe we have clarified macro-e as the development of an organ through the process of genetic drift and hidden mutation(i.e. through this process the new organ appears as if it were new and never seen and also appears as if it came out of no where). The actual definition is a little confusing so I will state it the way I did above. Thank YouSonic
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Sonic Inactive Member |
Agreed, moving on.
[This message has been edited by Sonic, 11-28-2003]
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
...appears as if it came out of no where Cool, it's official. If your post is the definition of macro-evolution, it is not part of the TOE. Now that that is settled we can move on. . ------------------Asgara "An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato
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