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Author Topic:   PROOF OF GOD
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 681 of 739 (129067)
07-31-2004 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 674 by Cold Foreign Object
07-30-2004 6:52 PM


Willowtree
This is your subjective opinion - do you have a source ?
My sources disagree.
In 2141 BC Alpha Draconis WAS the pole star/North star.
This is a fact established by my sources.
I used the online planetarium called Your Sky at the following website.
Your Sky
If you go to the site scroll down till you see the "Set for nearby city" Click on this.I selected Cairo Egypt as the nearest city shown.Click on Cairo and you will arrive at another sky map.
If you look in the upper section of the map you will see a small "a" symbol above the constellation Camelopardalis.Click again on this "a" and a new map will arrive showing the immediate region around the star Polaris in real time. Polaris is presently less than a degree away from the north celestial pole {NCP} which is signified by the blue cross symbol next to Polaris.
Now ,in order to clarify things we are going to enhance the contrast and at the same time roll the clock back over 4000 years and see the sky for 2141 B.C. Scroll down to Date and Time and select Universal Time ,then we will erase 2004 and in its place put -2141.Next scroll farther down until you see the term Colour scheme under display options select Black on white background. This makes it easy to spot relative distances.Now scroll back up and click on Update.
You will now find yourself looking at the sky as it appeared in 2141 B.C. and you can see the small "a" {Alpha Draconis} and it is more than 2.5 degrees away from the cross which as you recall signifies the NCP. Now, Thuban was the pole star at one time and probably exceeded Polaris in proximity to the NCP but not untill you go even farther back in time.Go to Date and time and insert -2700 at hit Update.See what I mean?
At this moment I apologize for taking this route however I could not get a copy of the star maps and simply post them as I intended originally.So now that I have given you the source for this you can see for yourself the impossibility off relying on the 2141 date and that while the fact that Thuban was indeed once the pole star it was not at the time we are disputing but in fact 6 centuries earlier.
Now if you would please present the star maps your sources used to establish their claims I will be delighted to see them presented to us all.
This message has been edited by sidelined, 07-30-2004 11:48 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 674 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-30-2004 6:52 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 682 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-31-2004 5:02 PM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 694 of 739 (129258)
08-01-2004 5:10 AM
Reply to: Message 682 by Cold Foreign Object
07-31-2004 5:02 PM


Willowtree
I have four specific sources who say the pole star/North star was the Dragon Star in 2141 BC, and they specifically say that Alcyone of the Pleiades was also in alignment with the Scored Lines. They also are all in agreement that only in 2141 BC did this alignment occurr.
Yes but your four sources offer no evidence of this or you would shoot me down while my one source,using available star catalogues and rendering software to position stars over time,shows that Thuban,while most definitely a pole star, could not have been such at the designated year of 2141 B.C..
Unless you are willing to offer their calculations to refute this then I will assume you are merely deflecting the evidence I offer in order to avoid dealing with it.If your sources cannot back up their claim with the means by which they drew their conclusion then they are talking out of their hat.If they state that Thuban was a pole star in 2141 B.C. by all means they must have a means of verifying such a claim.
This is simple.Merely have your sources provide star maps of the sky in 2141 B.C. showing Thuban to occupy the pole position and you can claim some level of veracity for theirs and your position on this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 682 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-31-2004 5:02 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 710 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-02-2004 3:31 PM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 717 of 739 (129859)
08-02-2004 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 710 by Cold Foreign Object
08-02-2004 3:31 PM


Willowtree
It doesn't matter if there are two stars in the entire universe,
whether you are a professional astronomer or not.
In an anonymous debate forum only evidence with source qualifies.
I was TOLD no website qualifies as evidence unless the link contains sources and how the conclusion is determined
You never even bothered to check the website did you? If you had you would have easily been able to check the sources for yourself.Must I do your footwork for you?Very well.
Your Sky was implemented by John Walker in January and February of 1998. The calculation and display software was adapted from Home Planet for Windows.
The GIF output file generation is based upon the ppmtogif module of Jef Poskanzer's pbmplus toolkit, of which many other components were used in creating the images you see here.
ppmtogif.c - read a portable pixmap and produce a GIF file
Based on GIFENCOD by David Rowley [mgardi@watdscu.waterloo.edu].
Lempel-Zim compression based on "compress".
Modified by Marcel Wijkstra [wijkstra@fwi.uva.nl]
Copyright 1989 by Jef Poskanzer.
Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, provided
that the above copyright notice appear in all copies and that both that
copyright notice and this permission notice appear in supporting
documentation. This software is provided "as is" without express or
implied warranty.
The Graphics Interchange Format is the Copyright property of
CompuServe Incorporated. GIF(sm) is a Service Mark property of
CompuServe Incorporated.
Steven Grimm's uncgi made the task of processing form arguments in the server immeasurably easier.
The algorithms to calculate the positions of the Moon, planets, asteroids, and comets are given in:
Meeus, Jean. Astronomical Algorithms . Richmond: Willmann-Bell, 1998. ISBN 0-943396-63-8.
Stars in full-sky maps and horizon views are plotted using "The Bright Star Catalogue, 5th Revised Edition" [Yale: Hoffleit & Warren 1991], which contains position, magnitude, spectral type, and proper motion data for 9096 stars brighter than magnitude 6.5. It is the most widely used digital star database, since it includes comprehensive information for all naked eye stars. The master versions of this catalogue is distributed on the NASA Astronomical Data Center CD-ROM, were specially processed for use in Your Sky, annotating them with star names, Bayer letters and Flamsteed numbers, and other information. You can obtain copies of this and other astronomical catalogues from the Astronomical Data Center's Archives.
The Virtual Telescope uses the definitive Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory Star Catalogue [SAO: 1966], updated to epoch J2000.0 and corrected by Roman and Warren in 1990. The SAO catalogue is the fundamental professional astrometric reference: it lists more than a quarter of a million stars, providing position, visual and photographic magnitude, proper motion, spectrographic information, and a wealth of other data. The SAO catalogue contains stars as faint as twelfth magnitude, but is generally considered to have a limiting magnitude (the point at which as many stars are missed as are included) of about 9.5. The master versions of these primary references, distributed on the Astronomical Data Center CD-ROM, were specially processed for use in Your Sky, annotating them with star names, Bayer letters and Flamsteed numbers, and other information. Visit the Astronomical Data Center's Archives for your own copy of this database.
The images used in the Your Sky welcome page and the help logo were synthesised using the "noao/artdata" artificial star field generator module of the National Optical Astronomy Observatories' IRAF system. IRAF is an extremely powerful professional image analysis and processing program, and it's free. To generate your own custom star fields and planets, check out our Terranova Screen Saver for Windows. The shadow was added using the Fourmilab Shadow Server.
My sources say your subjective conclusions are incorrect
You have no sources do you? You cannot provide me with their data because either you do not have it or they do not. I am tired of the bullshit.Either put up or shut up.
Backtrack 1 inch to 1 year from these points in the GP TO the Scored Line intersection in the Descending passage/2141 BC and you arrive at 2141 BC.
This is meaningless since it obviously does not correlate with what your sources have claimed it would which is Thuban occupying the polestar position to a very close proximity of the CNP.
How about you give us your sources and the way they determined the position of Thuban in 2141 B.C.?
But it doesn't matter, because the 2141 BC date can be independantly verified
Alrighty now. Let us hear the independant verification seperate from both your sources and mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 710 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-02-2004 3:31 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

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