PROOF against evolution

In fact, crashfrog, it doesn't really matter if you are talking about arbitrary or not. ... the main thing is that you said that code is meaningful information. But in this case you disagree with Percy's example... because he is using this meaningful information to create [the first] meaningful information. Understand? That's nonsense. You can't do that. You are saying that it is blue because Percy says so. My question is... who said so at the begenning when there was no human? You are saying that there had to be an intelligence who said so... aren't you? But there were 2 question - 2 examples.... first one "Why did he draw it?", second one "Was he able to draw it if he didn't know how it looks like and didn't know what he is going to draw" - in this second one was applied your "arbitrary"-explanation of creating information. And, as you can see, it is one big nonsence.
You can't use defintion of circle from first question and apply it to second question, because in second question, in fact, there is no definition "circle". Just read carefully. And I've explained it in other posts as well. And as I showed you, Percy used information to create information... so your example is nonsense. Apply 1st and 2nd answer of this post.

Well, I can and simply... if you don't believe in 'higher intelligence' than your question is absurd. You are saying about selective filter which is determining what parts of a random outcome are kept... my question is simple... how was created that "selective filter"? Or it just was?
Before you reply, try to think what I'm saying and explaining in previous posts as well. Otherwise I would have to copy it again and again. It's quite boring.

Well done. And now please apply it to a Big Bang theory - how did it work?And you see? We are talking about information and you are saying that information was even when Big Bang happened (that should be logical in fact) - ....How did it get to those atoms? Or it just was? YOU SEE? You can't use information to create [the first] information! IS THIS NOT A PROOF ? It si senselessness - you must see it or you don't want to see it ! I guess you are talking about those atoms which "hold the information in the atomic structure" (your words) .... Again - don't tell me you don't see this, that you are blind. Don't tell me that, Loudmouth.

Apply the same answer as in my reply to Loudmouth post. I will copy it:"Well done. And now please apply it to a Big Bang theory - how did it work?And you see? We are talking about information and you are saying that information was even when Big Bang happened (that should be logical in fact) - ....How did it get to those atoms? Or it just was? YOU SEE? You can't use information to create [the first] information! "

I see what you are getting towards - the universe created itself!

Well, it couldn't without information. Nothing here has created itself... somebody has to decide to create it. (and this is the point where my discussion started, as you remember) [or something must recieve existing information how to create it]. Without given information, couldn't be created information itself so couldn't be created anything - including life.

But that would mean that nothing could exist! EVER! But I know the probability of the universe existing is 1, so that can't be right.No the universe must have created itself - it's the only logical solution.

Good thinking. Well, in fact, I realized it after I pressed "submit". I realized that I forgot something. The sentence should be like this: Nothing here has created itself without given information. But you see, it is not. So why it must be? .... The information can be produced only by intelligence, you can read the evidence in previous posts. ....the same like crashfrog said ...0001 is blue because Percy said so. ... yes, it could be brown (if he said so), it could be black (if he said so), but it was blue - simple...because he said so. .... that means everything here could be absolutely different, if "somebody" said so... And that is the logic (you are talking about).

no that makes no sense - if the universe did not create itself, then where did it come from?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-11-2004 05:16 AM

But I explained that before -> The only logical explanation is that some intelligence said so and that way created it. I (Percy and crashfrog - although they are not aware of that) have shown an example how it works in the previous post.

not at all - how is it not logical that the universe did not provide this information? Was it not likely that the universe created itselfYou still fail to provide a more logical explaination.

is it logical that 0001 became blue? Yes, it could be "whatever" color... But "whatever" wouldn't exist without given information! That means you are against it, as it is not logical for you and you are against crashfrog and Percy (eg) [in fact, this is nice example where you can see that evolutionists are all against themselves, that's because theory of evolution is a "blind circle - without the end (or start)", full of nonsense] -> who defend theory of evolution -> that means you don't really believe it, you just need something else to "believe"... (explanation later in this post)As I said, it's not logical for you. In fact, it is very and absolutely logical, you just don't want it to be logical, and that's the difference.
To change a belief from evolution theory to mentioned 'higher intelligence' is very difficult. It's not just you have to accept prooved fact that something is different, but, and that's the most important... you would have to change the way of your life, it's the moral thing which is "blocking" you to accept it. That means if there are 100 proofs, you wouldn't accept it.Different way:
Read the name of this topic. What does it say? Yes, I do not need to give you logical-for-you explanation. I'm showing you the proof against the evolution. That's all I'm doing. If it is not the proof, tell me what does "proof" mean.If you don't want to accept it [higher intelligence], that is your choice. That's also very important thing - everyone has a choice - there is absolutely no need to "kicking" somebody to "believe" in that. Why should anybody do that?

nice dodge - it's ok just to say "I don't have an answer for you".

So let's look at how the example of the circle might come about, without design.Little kid is at daycare. Draws pictures on paper. On one paper, just by chance, he draws a circle. The teacher says keep that one and draw me another like it.Can you imagine that happening?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

jar jar jar.... you are doing everything to show that black is white.Teacher says....Why?.... Got it? Something with information says -> is giving information ! Teacher is giving information to keep it! Why teacher just don't sit whole time? Why he has to give an information to keep it? Because he's already got information which tells him to give information to keep it!
You can't use information to create [the first] information!Can you see "without information there would be absolutely nothing" in that example now?