Does Peer Pressure stifle the acceptance of the obvious?

I was giving you an example of an atheistic group. But we need not go so far as communists. There are atheistic groups that have agendas--such as pushing for taxation of churches. This agenda is directly related to their fundamental beliefs. That's funny.

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I was giving you an example of an atheistic group. But we need not go so far as communists. There are atheistic groups that have agendas--such as pushing for taxation of churches. This agenda is directly related to their fundamental beliefs.

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Now that is funny...fundamental beliefs?...so not believing in the supernatural is a fundamental belief that is related to a desire for taxing churches? I'm an atheist and don't advocate such a tax...so which fundamental belief am I missing in the supposed atheist dogma you were going to explain to me?

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That's funny.

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No, it's sad..but hardly uncommon.

Hi Riverrat. That's an unfair accusation.I think what Shraff is trying to tell you is that there is no way to discern God-thoughts from her own, because they're infact, all her own thoughts. Maybe you just think God speaks to you like this, as it doesn't suggest anything about this formula, in the bible. Well, that's the first positive statement I've heard. That end bit was atleast a new one on me. Usually it's, "now go and burn in hell for eternity for enjoying the taste of chicken". Atheistic-pressure doesn't exist.I agree lots of people do wrongs in life (sins), but if I'm honest, I don't think I've ever done anything to deserve an eternity in hell. It's probable that neither has Shraff. So why bother her at all with pressuring her to pray when she is obviously content to live agnostically, and then go to heaven afterwards?Don't tell me. My theology is a lie from the devil. This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 11-04-2005 08:32 AM

Bah, boring! Where's the theoretical scientist in you? Take the existing cases, and make a theory that addresses cases we haven't measured! Just joking, just joking. Of course what you're saying makes a lot of sense. It should at least be pointed out that we can't measure atheistic groups. Generalizing over religion has the caveat that we aren't measuring non-religious groups.I should take some time to do some historical reading about atheistic cultures. Maybe there's nothing. Somehow I feel that, with the advent of scientific knowledge and the validation it gets by our ability to manipulate our world, that atheism is much more viable than in the past. But you're right, it's guesswork. For science, that's fine. But religion need not be logical. And crash goes a little further, saying religious types choose religion because they're too weak to handle the truth, in denial, things like this. I'm not saying crash is right or wrong. All I am saying is that his harshness about taking alternative views that are outside the domain of logic are, in my eyes, the types of views that lead people to feel peer pressure.I guess it's views and comments that say "not only do I disagree, but I'm confident that anybody who holds this view is wrong, embarrassingly wrong." That to me reeks of what leads to peer pressure. And those are the kinds of attitudes I see from crash when he deals with religious types who can't debate logically. Anybody who is undecided. Lurkers. If crash had younger siblings. I'm making this hypothetical because I don't see that crash has a large impressionable audience. Would it be more believable if these things were being discussed in high school among friends? Lots of impressionable people there...Anyway. I think we at least understand each other... I guess I'm just being more hypothetical.Ben

I'm on rather familiar terms with Schrafinator, and I can assure you that thoughts like "Damn, this chicken salad is good" pop into her mind very regularly. I also happen to know which chicken salad she's talking about, and I agree with here wholeheartedly. It's freakin' delicious, and I didn't really know that chicken salad could be so good.I think it primarily has to do with the quality of the chicken. Most chicken produced in this country in rather bland and uninspiring, but if you're willing to pay extra for truly fine chicken meat, the flavor is amazing.I think that if you are mocking this thought of Schraf's, then you really truly don't know what fine chicken salad is.I feel sorry for you, and your empty culinary life.

I know that already. It's up to her to decide if she is hearing from God or not. Not you or I. I believe in God, so I will continue to encourage someone as nice as schrafinator, to also hear from God. God speaks to us in at least 5 different ways. Thanks, its how I feel inside. Yes it does. Pressure exists from every walk of life. There is so much to learn about life, the universe and everything, that no one could know it all, myself included. We can only make decsions based on what we know and experience. We are the sum of our experiences. If schraf was mostly surrounded by atheistic people, and taught that in school, then she is programed to think there is no God. When in actuality there is whole bunch of things that she doesn't know about God, that keeps her from knowing God.I speak this from experience. In spite of the world around me, I found God, or should I say he called me, and know my relationship with everyone has now changed, and the pressure has shifted. But God has freed me from peer pressure, at least as far as I can tell. There are still things about myself that I need to learn. I never thought at any point in my life that I would go to hell either. That is why I know it is wrong to tell anyone, or think that anyone is going to hell. Judge the way you want to be judged. Jesus didn't come to judge the world, he came to save it. I didn't pressure at all. I wasn't even speaking to her. But when the Holy spirit moves in someones life, things like this will happen. The spirit is so strong, that it will bleed over to those who I wasn't even speaking too. That is because I am speaking in the spirit, by the power of the spirit, and not my own will but God's. I am just trying to be an obediant servant, and project the love God has for us. If people start praying, who wouldn't normally pray, then there are angels in heaven rejoicing. Schraf doesn't know it right now, but if she did in fact pray, then the angels are doing work on her, and the spirit is doing work on her right now. And I give God all the glory. I don't believe that for a second. I think you are doing a smashing job.

Actually, I am not mocking her. To be honest, what I felt the instant I read that was that, before she even started praying she was going to pay no mind to God, because she was convinced that there is no God.If I break her response down, we will see that she was infact mocking me, and mocking God. She did what I suggested?
What did she do?
She admitted to having a sheltered life? From what I can tell about schraf, her life is not sheltered, but very free. Lie #1If your eating chicken salad, then your not praying to God, your just eating chicken salad. lie #2Which question was she responding to?
I wasn't even talking to her, she's not the one feels sheltered.It's a joke.Or if she is telling the truth, then the response she got was representative of her life. Full of flavor, provide by the fine meats she uses. A very encouraging thought from God.But my gut feeling on this one is that she had a predetermined answer before she even asked. She could be missing out on revelation from God, and thats all I want to help people with, is to hear from God. You will know when its God or when it isn't. I won't be able to say when it is or isn't.If there is a God, wouldn't you like to hear from him?My culinary life is quite full, and I do appreciate fine chicken salad. I am quite the cook, if I do say so myself. If you all lived close by, I would have you over for diner. You all would be welcome in my house.Anthony

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I already knew that I would recieve an untruthful answer from someone like you.

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Huh?My answer was a completely honest one.

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It's ok, you can kid youself all you want. You can either be happy for yourself because you feel free and void of any religious pressure in your life, or you can feel upset because your mind is so full of athiestic pressure, that you can not hear from God.

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Are you saying that God is incapable of making Himself known to me?He must not really want me to believe in him. Or maybe He just can't.

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Obviously if you are eating chicken salad, then you are not concentrating on any answer from God.

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Are you saying that God isn't capable of superceding my lunch?

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Funny, I just got a vision of schraf standing at the pearly gates, and there is Jesus, with the biggest bowl of most delicious tasting chicken salad in his hands, and he is saying, you'll have to go through me, so start eating this, but only the bowl doesn't ever get empty. At first Schraf is like, hey this is great, but then after a few measly hours of eating the best chicken salad in her life, she gets tired of it, and realizes she no longer wants it. Suddenly there is a feeling of emptyness. Then she has to face Jesus, but Jesus says, its ok, come on in, laughing.

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My my, you have quite the vivid imagination, don't you?.

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I think that if you are mocking this thought of Schraf's, then you really truly don't know what fine chicken salad is.

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I feel sorry for you, and your empty culinary life.

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Awesome.

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There is so much to learn about life, the universe and everything, that no one could know it all, myself included.

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...and that's one reason I don't presume to know for sure if the supernatural exists or not.Nobody really knows. It's not possible to know.

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We can only make decsions based on what we know and experience. We are the sum of our experiences. If schraf was mostly surrounded by atheistic people, and taught that in school, then she is programed to think there is no God.

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But I wasn't, and I'm not.I was a believer until my mid twenties.I have been a believer longer than I have not believed.

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When in actuality there is whole bunch of things that she doesn't know about God, that keeps her from knowing God.

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...or, there's a whole lot of lies you have been telling yourself about what you think is God but is really your own mind and imagination.

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To be honest, what I felt the instant I read that was that, before she even started praying she was going to pay no mind to God, because she was convinced that there is no God.

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But I am not convinced that there is no God.I am not convinced that there is a God.But I really can't say either way, because nobody knows for sure.So, I'm agnostic when it comes to the supernatural.AbE: FYI, I was mocking you, a little, not God.How can I mock an entity I don't know exists?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-04-2005 04:29 PM

Was this change a traumatic event? I'm just curious.

Chicken is, after all, the Gospel Bird (to Southern Baptist congregations, where it is a staple of church dinner fundraising).Although we are atheistically inclined agnostics, we purchase as much of our meat as possible from kosher butchers; the standards are high, and the eating is good.We switched to antibiotic-free, cage-free, vegetarian-feed eggs for the same reason: not out of health concerns so much, but because the flavor is greatly superior, well worth the extra buck or so."Good bread, good meat--
Good God, let's eat!"

The Lord won't mind.

That's interesting. I've been thinking about Schrafinator and I am beginning to think that God was talking to her when He put that thought in her head about how good the chicken salad was.There's a lesson there, I think.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 11-04-2005 03:42 PM

See my other responses for a more detailed explanation.