Does Peer Pressure stifle the acceptance of the obvious?

Hi, Rob, try studying the Wonderful World of the Watchtower Society, where shunning and disfellowshipping is an art form in community and families. There are plenty of ex-JW websites where members talk of their experiences.

Rob, you chicken, confront your fears. JW`s are just people (o.k. so we haven`t got all the tests back). Ask them if they have anything on pedophile priests in the Catholic Church.While they are scurrying to find the latest diatribe in their literature, casually ask them 'How are the 24,000 sexual abuse cases going in the W.T.S.'? I doubt you`ll be bothered again.Edited for punc.This message has been edited by Nighttrain, 11-04-2005 01:28 AM

Hi, Ohnhai. First up, could I say there seems to be a mistaken belief among religionists that Atheism is the end of the line. In that you become an atheist and no more. Can`t speak for all atheists, but those I have met, and myself, regarded it as the first step on a journey. Discarding religious trappings gave us a different slant on the world and we saw problems and solutions in a new way. No longer necessary to check with the Big Guy and His Book to see if it was verboten or acceptable, we could read and judge the ways of the world almost like an outsider. And we built our lives on what we decided was a wholesome world-view. Now, there might have been occasions for peer pressure to cause friction between approaches, but no way did we ever tell each other that we were going to atheist hell.Or shun. Or stone or torture or burn at the stake. So I guess atheist peer pressure must be lacking in some respect. However, atheists can violently disagree with choice of politics or footy team, so we still have a way to travel.:-p

Easy enough to figure out whether you are suffering from a delusion or have the HG as an ISP link to God. Next time you are in contact, ask for the formula for a cure to one of the multiplicity of diseases that beset mankind. What`s that Scripture about 'ask and it will be given to you?'
I wait for the apologetics session to begin.

Anyone who might wonder if they are kidding themselves, or are saved. Got to formulate some kind of a test for those are undecided.

Probably the one about an atheist and an ass----

I`m glad you have found peace in your life, RR, because I think that`s all that most of us seek. If it spreads in your church and community, let`s hail that kind of peer pressure.The other side of the coin is that after meeting thousands of 'Christians' in my life, I met very few that I would want to emulate, and none who showed signs of inner peace. Some might have appeared to on the surface, but disturb that calm and the rage showed through. They usually were camp followers in that they parroted the dogma of their church/group and never questioned authority. They quoted chapter and verse and couldn`t discuss the context.They donned one face for their peers and another for the street. Rarely did I hear one of their flock challenge them.They rubbished other religions as of the devil and, again, rarely could explain the tenets of their targets. So I guess my departure from Christianity was due to Christians. Nothing I have seen in the time since has altered my opinions.

I think the main difference between science and religion can be explained by the wanderer approach. If you wander the world and ask a question of the laws of science, you get the same result. No exceptions. If you wander the world asking the same question of, say, Christian groups, you will get a variety of answers. Since the HG can`t be wrong, and every group claims to be Spirit-guided, what conclusions can we draw?

What happened at Hiroshima was mankind`s decision to use the forces of the laws of science. It has no connection. Either talk science or talk morality.
You exist--thanks to the laws of science governing your construction and functioning
You sense--via the laws of science
You drive to work--in a vehicle obeying the laws of science
You may operate machinery at work--built and performing through the laws of science.
Suppose you are injured--you are taken to a hospital that aids you with techniques and materials that obey the laws of science.
You come home and sit down to a meal provided by,preserved by, prepared by, even served via the laws of science.
And so it goes on----
Now tell me you consider science biased, equal to religion, even controlled by money. We are talking about the building blocks of the universe and the rules by which they perform, not some airy-fairy notion that science wanders in and out on some whim. Try violating a law of science and see how far you get.
As to errors in our understanding of the laws of science, may I point out we have only been seriously delving into these for the last couple of hundred years. Opposing the age of enlightenment, we have the big three religions which have had up to 2-3 millenia and still can`t agree. Now that`s bias.

Well, RR, you tend to wander all over the place so it gets a tad hard to determine which facet of science you are refering to. You use 'science' as a blanket term, and rail against it. Then you dive into funding which is just a part. So are you talking about
* speculative science?
* theoretical science?
* research science?
* applied science?
* high school science?
* the laws of the universe science?
* big biz science?
* science as it affects our day-to-day existence?
* science as it affects the ignorance of religion?

What are you talking about? God created disease.Col 1:16---'all things are created by him'---plus sundry other Scriptures.

At the risk of getting further off-topic---. I don`t HATE God or religion. However, I do hate ignorance and stupidity, because the ignorant and stupid are too dangerous to have around. Especially when they are in power. If, as religionists claim, God made everything, and is omniscient, then we can`t 'cause' anything without either His knowledge or without using His creations.
However, if you maintain we 'cause' disease, then either He isn`t omniscient, or we have powers equal to or superior to his creating skills.

Then, at least, I`ve achieved some degree of fame.

Certainly not lawyers.:-pWonder what happened to those scientists who fudged figures and covered up smoking-related data as exposed in Senate(?) investigations?

I`m really impressed. Is this the same Mike the Wiz of a year or so ago? Hope you`ve retained that sense of humour.