I'm trying: a stairway to heaven?

Bad analogy. The soldiers who cowered in the corner were not "doing their best".The ones who did go over the top and got killed half-way across no-man's-land did do their best, even if they didn't succeed.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

It seems that you are the one who doesn't understand the word "command".Allow me to refer you back to your (failed) analogy in Message 9: The soldiers who went over the top did obey the command. Even the ones who failed to reach their objective did obey the command.Obedience is not about 100% success. Never was. Never will be. Obedience is about doing your best.That's what soldiers get medals for. That's what we get rewards in heaven for.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

So you arbitrarily cut off your own analogy where it ceases to illustrate your point?Fine, let's look at the situation before your chosen cut-off point: Suppose a soldier goes up the ladder, bullet through the forehead. Dead. Didn't make it up the ladder. Didn't make it to dawn. Shooting him again seems a bit redundant, doesn't it?He did obey the order. He just didn't succeed 100%. You've been given examples - Job, for instance - in whom "no fault was found". They did succeed 100%, according to the Bible. You need to pull your head out of... Romans... and look at the Big Picture: ALL of the Bible suggests that God is a "righteous and holy" father. Do you agree with that?If you do, how can you even suggest that a father would demand more than their "best try" from his children?

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

The trouble is, you haven't given a shred of evidence that trying is not sufficient.

quote:

---

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

---

It seems that Jesus' standard of "perfection" was not that hard to follow after all.

quote:

---

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abijah: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

---

Even before Jesus was born, Zacharias and Elizabeth kept all of the commandmnents and were blameless.So how about giving us some scripture to back up your viewpoint? Everything we've seen so far seems to contradict you.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

Hardly. My purpose here is to show that your outlook on salvation is nonsensical and unscriptural. So far - judging by the responses of everybody else - mission accomplished. Remember your analogy about giving directions to London? By your own standard, it doesn't matter whether the person follows the directions or not - merely that the directions were given.Jesus gave the rich man directions. The rich man chose not to follow them, just as the soldiers in your other analogy chose to disobey orders.Those who do follow Jesus' instructions will still get the reward in Heaven that He promised. And it doesn't matter one bit which it was. The point here is that they were blameless - which you say is impossible. You contradict the Bible.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

But I am on topic. I have said that the entire Bible describes God as being righteous and holy - and that a righteous and holy Father would not demand from His children more than they can deliver.If you want to seriously defend your position, you have to deal with that.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

But man-made logic is all we have. If there is a separate "Biblical logic", which arrives at a different conclusion - and you are the only one who seems to see it - then why do you refuse to share it with us?

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

quote:

---

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

---

But it is in the Bible, as you have been shown:

1. God is not an idiot.
2. God is not a sadist.
3. Therefore, God would not demand more of His children than they can deliver.
4. Nobody has shown - Biblically or otherwise - that that logic is incorrect.
5. Jesus gave simple instructions for salvation - Love thy neighbour as thyself.
6. The Bible documents cases of people who were able to follow the law.
   

The Biblical case for "trying" seems pretty solid and no case against it has been proposed.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

Uh... the Romans crucified Jesus. You have been shown that we can fulfil them. Jesus' crucifixion was unnecessary. His message would be no less important if He had died of old age. Aren't you paying attention? Zacharias and Elizabeth did follow them.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

The clue that you need to get here is that a "command" is not, never was and never will be an "obey or else" proposition.As in your own analogy of the soldiers: Do your best to go over the top. If you get killed trying, you're a hero, not a traitor. There is no punishment for failure, as long as you do your best.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

Jesus told us what we have to do to please God:

quote:

---

Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

---

Loudly proclaiming, "I am a Christian and you're not," is not part of it:

quote:

---

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

---

It's the ones who don't "love thy neighbour" who are punished:

quote:

---

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

---

God will divide the sheep from the goats, and it is clear that that division is based on what was done to the least of Jesus' brothers. It is not based on whether or not one is in the "club".

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

Compare these two verses:

quote:

---

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

---

and:

quote:

---

Mat 22:39 ... Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

---

Notice that it doesn't say, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind." Nor does it say, "Thou shalt succeed 100% in loving thy neighbour all of the time."It says, "Love thy neighbour as thyself.Jesus once again:

quote:

---

Mat 25:35 For I was hungry, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

---

Is your neighbour hungry? Make him a sandwich. Is he thirsty? Give him your last Guinness. Is he wandering the streets with no place to go? Let him sleep on your couch. Does he need a warm coat for the Canadian winter? Give him one of yours. Is he sick or in prison? Visit him.If you would like your neighbour to do any of those things for you, do it for him. That's what it means to love thy neighbour as thyself.Stop pretending it can't be done and start doing it.

quote:

---

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

---

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

You continue to demonstrate that you don't understand what a command is.By your own analogy, the soldier who tries to obey a command is a hero.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

It doesn't tell you when you can stop - thus implying you can only stop when you are finished.Let's look at your own analogy of the soldiers in the trench. The command is not, "Go over the top and stand milling around in no-man's land." The command is, "Capture the enemy position."And, of course, any soldier who is killed while trying to obey that command has done his duty to the best of his ability.Similarly, when you have fed every hungry person, etc., you can stop. If you stop before the job is finished, you are willfully disobeying the command, and you will be punished. If you try your best to obey the command, you will be rewarded.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

There's nothing in the Bible that requires me to ask them their names.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.