An amazing story

Looking back at it.... It is rather long. I become engrossed in it when I couldn't sleep one night so it didn't seem so long to me...However, looking back now I understand your complaints!

That's because all of Infidels moved to a new format a year or so back, and anything you pull up from the pre-move archives has bunches of odd formatting. Edits were presumably only for those, not for content.She's still around the boards over there, and I see no reason at all to doubt here story.This message has been edited by Coragyps, 01-04-2006 10:17 AM

Thanks for explaining the multiple editors.

Ouch. I just got to the end of ...PAGE ONE!!!??????That was struggle enough, but three more?Sorry, I won't be back to this until later. I'm reading carefully, in spare time, don't want to miss anything.Mini Ditka, by the way, would you consider changing the title of this thread? Maybe Deconversion Story? Something to identify it better.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-04-2006 11:26 AM

Somehow I get the feeling that a few years from now she will return to religion.I wonder if there is such a thing as a religious temperament.

At the point I stopped reading I've concluded the opposite, but who knows, by the end I may have a different impression. If there's a religious temperament, I'm not it. I was always a cynic, always making sardonic wisecracks, thought all the New Age religiosity so many of my friends got into in the 60s and 70s was the end of all reason and civilization itself. (Still think that though).This message has been edited by Faith, 01-04-2006 01:00 PM

Well, I skipped a lot. After awhile all her soul-searching began to irritate me. I'm not the right audience for this type of thing.The ending seemed rather strained to me--artificial.

I think she felt the extended soul-searching report was necessary to convince us of her sincerity. That could get tedious. But I feel obliged to be sure I don't miss something.Since I usually appreciate your observations, I'll be interested to see if I agree about the artificial ending.

You have to look at the context, the thesis that "once saved, always saved", which I think is from Calvin. She is documenting that she was once genuinely saved.

I agree that's what she's doing. Nevertheless reasonable questions can be raised about that.

Don't apologize, Min. I found the story very interesting and a pretty good read, though I did skip a few parts just to get to the end a little faster since I was pressed for time.I found that many of her questions/problems concerning the Bible were the exact same ones I had. The main difference being I wasn't as infused with Christianity as she was so leaving it behind was much easier and far less traumatic for me.Thanks for the link.

yes. perseverance of the saints is a calvinist principle based on several verses. here's a listing of it. if you go to the site, the linked footnotes hold the verses relevant.westminster confession of faith

...which was difficult because it got to be a lot of proselytizing eventually, along the lines encountered so frequently here at EvC. The usual Bible-debunking stuff.Was she ever saved? The Calvinist view would say no, but she was convincing about her immersion in all the attitudes of that kind of church. But then she is so quickly persuaded by the first encounter she has with the usual kinds of questions and complaints against Christian doctrine that I have to suspect her belief was likely just a well-practiced habit and not a real faith. She expresses guilt but not loss, alienation from the people in the church, but no pangs about losing God. That struck me too.My first take on this thread, that churches should be more alert to the kinds of indoctrination their children will encounter in the world, and be sure they know about it, still seems important, but somehow less important.That's because the story brought home to me in the end how entirely supernatural a thing faith is, and how futile debate and efforts to persuade are, if not initiated by God's Spirit. I know that of course already, but I needed to see it as convincingly laid out as she laid it out.What else? Oh, she refers to some things she says she was taught, apparently without knowing those things derive from the Bible, at one point quotes for instance a Christian song about "returning to first love" without any apparent awareness that that is an admonition of Christ to the churches in the Book of Revelation. Wonder in the end how much of the Bible she ever actually read herself.RR said he thought the ending was "artificial." You mean her little Parable of the Forest? I didn't read it carefully because I figured her point was already obvious, but I didn't see any of it as artificial myself.And no, I don't think she'll ever go back. She's burned her bridges spiritually speaking.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-05-2006 03:02 AM

Then you had faith before you had faith? Were you also pierced by the love of god as she was?spellingThis message has been edited by ts, 01-05-2006 10:37 AM

I'll answer your questions but this is off topic for this thread so it shouldn't go any farther. No I can't say I had faith at that point, I merely believed that God was real, because of what some Hindu teachers wrote about experiencing God. I didn't know much about Christianity at the time, just bits and pieces I remembered from childhood. She was, wasn't she? No, but what I loved about her books was her love of God.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-05-2006 12:14 PM