I still want a different word for 'gay marriage'

"original intent" only goes so far. original intent, constitutionally, is the intent of rich white slave-owning white men. a slave, literally, is only 3/5's of a person. i think it's good to keep this in mind: we often write amendments to change the original intent, or fix oversights. yes, well i'd also like to point out that interracial couples were not originally considered. as said, have the government give out "civil unions" and the church give out "marriages." if you have a marriage, you also have a civil union, but not vice versa -- as long as civil unions contain all of the rights and benefits of a church-marriage.of course, the rest of us will just call the couple "married," and use terms like "husband" or "wife." it's not a failure: an unintentional oversight. you are actively arguing that we purposefully do not include a group, and that is exclusion. not good enough that we should legislate it. you have your opinions, and that's ok. but government does not exist to enforce one person's opinions on the next.

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http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p70-80.pdfTable 2 has some interesting stats (can't really post here, due to formatting issues)Not really feeling your 70%; true figure looks to be (eyeballing it) about 60%. But regardless, your point stands--the stat can be used to mislead easily.Thanks for bringing it up.

I have a lot of replies due in this thread and its gonna take some time so I'll get around to it when I can.

This is not a valid argument in a liberal democracy, imo. It reminds me of the racist white Southerners (and white South Africans) who would say, "If you lived here you would know what we are talking about." Having reasons is not an argument.Plain and simple, there is no valid reason for prohibiting marriage for gay and lesbian couples. It will not damage heterosexual marriage in any way. I wish for once someone would tell me how allowing gays to get married will do anything to my or anybody else's hetero marriage. If anything, it will strengthen hetero marriages, because fewer gays and lesbians will make the mistake of marrying straight in order to find acceptance in society.

did you happen to see lewis black's "red, white, and a screwed" last night?he described such a situatuation, where a band of gays pull up to a lone house at the end of a cul-de-sac, where a new family can be seen through the window sitting down to their first dinner. the gays don their black hoods and cloaks and matching pumps (very tasteful), charcoal up their faces. they break through the door, suprise the new family and ---- begin to fuck each other in the ass. and another heterosexual marriage is ruined! {forgive the language, i felt it was important to maintain the absurdity of the situation}

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I didn't see that but it sounds like excellent satire. Sometimes I think the only way to fight this silliness about gay marriage somehow wrecking hetero marriages is to do things like that to show people how silly it is. Unfortunately the true believers in this don't seem to have a sense of humor, though, and they just see it as more religious persecution (poor little martyr true Christian misunderstood me).

you really have to hear it with the blubbering and anger in his voice, see the veins popping out of his head, and the wild hand gestures he does. nah, they won't get it. somehow, other people being allowed to live their private lives physically harms these christian folks in a very real and specific way by damaging some abstract concept they feel actually affects their real lives.hey, gay marriages for everyone! sorry christians, now you have to marry someone of the same gender. too bad if you already have kids and a family. we have to kill them now. also, you know have to be anally raped in public by law.

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just wanted to say yo bro!maybe then this should be evolution vs. int. design

This is a response to Message 91 where we were off topic. Good, then don’t call people homophobes and tell them that they hate gays and want to deny them rights because they don’t support gay marriage. I think when people do that they are being just as prejudiced as the people who really are homophobic. What rights are gay people being denied? Can those rights be given without changing marriage?
Be specific. Predicting the future isn’t very easy. Call it a hunch. Or here, read this blog, if you will. There’s some elaboration on what the negative effects could be, I think. They? I dunno really. Me? No, I’m not afraid that hetero marriage will be destroyed. Marriage, in general, will be changed though and this I do not like. Hell, I probably would resist change in a lot of things, and like I said earlier, this is more of a liberal vs conservative thing than a religion/morality vs gays thing, IMHO. Be less demanding.In some states, when you fill out a marriage license there’s one part for the Groom (male) and one part for the Bride (female). Here is Hawaii’s marriage license if you don’t believe me. Now, I realize this specific change is not a big deal, you could probably draw a line through and make a correction for a gay marriage but it just goes to show that even on a very basic level, marriage will have to be changed to allow gay marriages. I’m sure there are other changes too, but I don’t really care about specifics. I was talking about the changes, in general, that would be liberalizing marriage, in general. I think liberalizing marriage is a bad idea and will have negative consequences and I don’t think we should change marriage to allow gay people to get married but I also don’t think we need to make an amendment to prevent from getting married. It should just be something different altogether. This does not make me a homophobe nor do I hate gay people nor am I actively trying to deny them rights.Look at this.

quote:

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Gay and lesbian couples have no constitutional right to marry in New York, .

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Now, that article goes on to explain how gays should have the right to get married, its just that the constitution does not grant them that right. More changes will need to be made.Also, think of all the things associated with marriage as far as rights and privileges. These were written with the original idea of marriage (like Hawaii’s (between man and woman) in mind. I think they’ll be open to exploitation when marriage is changed to include gay people. I think we should not make the changes. If gay people are being denied rights, then those rights should be given in the areas where they are denied (thinking hospital visits here), from the article above, though, it seems that they don’t have the right to marry. I think DOMA is bad and to actively say try to stop gays from getting married is denying them rights. But I don’t have a problem with not changing marriage and giving them something else. I’m not trying to convince you that you shouldn’t support gay marriage. I’m trying to get ”you people’ to stop spreading hate and calling people names because they don’t agree with you.Sometimes the results are not easy to predict but I can still hold the opinion on whether they will be bad or good. I’m no economist, so I don’t know what specific changes will be the results of gay marriage WRT taxes, but I think there will be results and I think some of the results will be negative and some could be positive. While still leaving out specific examples of the results on taxes and thinking about some of the possibilities, I’d say lets just leave marriage the way it is and not change it to include gay people.There’s other areas too, like health care. I can’t provide you with specific evidence like, if gay marriage is allowed then the results on health care will be this. But I do think the effects will be negative. So still, I don’t think we should change marriage.

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How my Marriage was Destroyed by the Homosexual Agenda

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- a really very truly honest testimonial by Eve Angelico

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Once, I was a happy woman.

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I was a mother. I had two wonderful children who knew how to behave themselves: Constance and Aaron.

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I was a wife. My husband, Christian, was a good solid man I could count on.

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That was just a few months ago. How could we have known, back then, that our blissful family would soon be torn apart forever by the forces of Satan?

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Oh, as I look back on it now, I can see that there were signs, like when Mr. Penderglass down the street started wearing teal, or when attendance at the Boy Scouts pack meeting started going down, or when Father Hanlon, who holds mass down at the All Souls Grace Blessing Rosary of Our Lady of the Aching Lower Back Cathedral started a midnight solo boy's glee club, with rehearsals in room 204 at the Motel Six. At the time, of course, I just thought it was God working in mysterious ways.

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If I had to choose one moment when my denial finally started to crumble, it would be the time when I found a smudge of bright red lipstick on the front pocket of Christian's best short-sleeved white wrinkle-free Sunday dress shirt. You see, every night when Christian comes home from work, I greet him at the door with a nice kiss on the cheek. The thing is, I only wear purple shades of lipstick, ranging from a light violet to a medium mauve. A few years ago, the Mary Kay representative on my block let me know, confidentially, that anything outside of this color range would be considered indiscreet, given my complexion. I don't even own any red lipstick. Too much red can give men the wrong idea.

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Well, I was pretty upset seeing that red lipstick on my husband's collar. I confronted Christian that very evening, right after I kissed him at the door and brought him his evening glass of beer.

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He didn't deny anything. He told me that had spent the afternoon in an alley, french kissing a woman named Tanya he had met in a tavern, after getting drunk on Schlitz malt liquor using money he had withdrawn from our children's college fund.

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When I demanded an explanation, he looked at me with a confused expression on his face and asked me, "Haven't you heard that the Supreme Court in Massachusetts has said that it's legal for gay couples to get married?"

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Suddenly, everything became clear.

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I ran across the living room and fell into the Lazy Boy where Christian was sitting, and threw my arms around him. "Oh, you poor baby," I cried. "You must feel awful! Why didn't you just call me to let me know?"

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Christian gazed deeply into my teary eyes. "What's the point of being honest with each other anymore, honey, now that gays can get married in Massachusetts?"

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"Do you mean to say..."

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"Darling, let's admit it. Our marriage is over."

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To hear these words from my husband was a difficult thing. The more I thought about it, though, the more I realized that I just didn't care about him anymore, now that gay people were going to be getting married. The love was gone, thanks to that damn homosexual agenda.

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I was about to ask Christian if he would like to experiment with some non-traditional lifestyle choices when I heard the front door opening. It was the kids coming home from school! How would we break it to them?

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Aaron set down his backpack to kiss me on the cheek. He was wearing a navy blue blazer with a matching tie, ornamented only with an American flag lapel pin. "Gosh mom," he said as he passed us by on the way to change into his Eagle Scout uniform, "what a long day at school! Still, I know that the Lord wants us to study hard so that we can read the Bible."

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As Constance walked into the kitchen, her ankle-length grey flannel skirt brushed up against Christian's wrist, and I saw his cheeks grow red. "Hey, honey," he leaned over to whisper, "Now that we're going to get a divorce, do you mind if I ask Constance to go out with me to the drive-in tonight? I promise I won't go past third base until she's ready."

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What the hell, I thought. Sure, she's our daughter, but now that gays are going to be allowed to get marriage licenses in downtown Boston, all concepts of morality are destroyed, and it doesn't really make a difference anymore. I wondered to myself which of my neighbors' houses would be the easiest to break into - I needed a cup of sugar.

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Constance turned on the radio in the kitchen to the Christian AM station we always listen to, and that's when our family's fate was finally sealed. The Lord's news update was saying that gay people in San Francisco were being allowed to get married right then and there!

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Constance turned around suddenly, with a strange look on her face that I had never seen before. All of a sudden, she started running towards the front door, ripping off her clothes. The last I saw of her, she was skipping down the street, wearing nothing but a flower in her hair, screaming, "I'm sexually promiscuous now! Does anyone want to have some casual sex so that I can get a sexually transmitted disease and then have an abortion?"

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Aaron came downstairs with a hurt and confused look on his face. "Golly," he whispered to Christian, "do you think that Constance has been influenced by the 1960s culture of permissiveness?"

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Christian frowned and said, "Son, all that you need to know that gay people are getting married in San Francisco."

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Immediately, Aaron ripped the merit badges from his uniform and threw them on the floor. "Fucking shit, Mom," he said to me. "I guess I'd better drop out of school and join a gang of juvenile delinquents."

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"Okay," I said, feeling all my parental authority melting away, "But try to be home before midnight. We'll be getting Cinemax now, and I'll bet there will be a really sexy and violent movie on after prime time. Maybe we can even illegally record it on our VCR."

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Aaron told me to shut up, then burped and walked out the door.

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Christian and I sighed. It was hard to say goodbye to him, but I knew the time had come. The homosexual agenda had succeeded in destroying our family, even though we had been happy, secure, and God-fearing just a few hours before.

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Who knows what will happen next? I suppose that as the news of gay marriages in San Francisco spreads, everybody in town will be getting divorced.

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I'm not sure where I'll end up, of course, but I'm taking my first steps in this new world shaped by homosexuality. I suppose I'll have to become a lesbian now. I've put in a call to the local Lions Club asking if they know about where I can get in touch with a baby-killing satanic cult in our area, and I've cancelled the check I wrote last week to the Christian Coalition.

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To think that it all could have been different, if gay people had just left well enough alone and not wanted to get married.

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Also, make sure to watch The gay agenda revealed!Edited by gasby, : No reason given.

Continuing from Message 87. That’s your excuse for prejudicing people? Sounds similar to the reasons people give for being racist. LOL, you still didn’t answer the question (and did just what I predicted) . I don’t have time to clear all the straw out of the way but le’me just say that I don’t have reasons why your hypothetical men shouldn’t be allowed to see each other. How would you feel about them if they weren’t gay lovers but just long friends, should those men be allowed to visit as well? I don’t know why hospitals limit visitors but I’m sure they have their reasons. So not all racism is negative then, and we could refer to affirmative action as positive racism, yeah? Right, but it you aren’t a racist then it should piss you off when someone says you hate black people. Personally, it doesn’t really bother me but if it did and I expressed that, it would not make me homophobic. Still though, people shouldn’t be forced to tolerate everything. Do you not see a little bit of hypocrisy there?

I'm on my way out right now so I will answer the rest of your post later. But really quickly, I've been letting this go for quite a while now, but aren't you getting tired at using the tu quoi fallacy over and over as if it has a point or something?

Not really. Hypocrisy bothers me. If you're going to preach tolerance then shouldn't you be tolerant of the intolerant?

I don't follow that reasoning at all.If somebody has gotten the wrong impression about me, the appropriate response would be to correct that impression, not to be pissed off about it.(And shouting, "I am not a racist!" isn't likely to do it. It's the indirect things we say that make an impression.)

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