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Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: YEC Problem with Science Above and Beyond Evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||
arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Maybe it's because I should be in bed but I could have sworn you'd spent large parts of the last four pages of posts whining about this thread not being for specifics. lol. that's ok, i'm happy to provide them, since i have some idea what i'm talking about (admittedly, not a whole lot), and i actually am interested in honest debate.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
creationists have thought about what actually exists and understand it in relation to the Flood. A single floodplain is what you get from a local flood, not a flood that involves ocean currents and the dissolving of whole continents and disturbances of the sea floor.
pointless speculation and special pleading. a flood looks like a flood because there is no single current, or because the current is violent and multi-directional. this mixes things into a single strata, not multiple. And you know this because you witnessed the Noachic Flood, right? Speaking of pointless speculation.
Tell me exactly what the genetic evidence for a bottleneck 4500 years ago should look like. Be specific. Include genetic evidence for known recent bottlenecks.
being able to trace all mitochondrial dna of each "kind" to a single individual, within the last 6,000 years. there was a such a bottleneck in the human genome under discussion somewhat recently, "mitochondrial eve" showing that every female alive today is descended from a single individual. if the ark story is true, we should expect similar results in every "kind" of animal, all of which line up to the same general timeframe. More specificity is needed Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
faith, that's as specific as i can get without you giving me a precise date for the flood.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I don't know the PRECISE date. Somewhere around 4500 years ago.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Maybe it's because I should be in bed but I could have sworn you'd spent large parts of the last four pages of posts whining about this thread not being for specifics. I gave up. The delinquents refused to reform.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
I don't know the PRECISE date. not specific enough! (just kidding)
Somewhere around 4500 years ago. then we should expect to be able to trace the mitochondrial dna of every single individual member of a kind to a single individual, approximately 4500 years ago. for every kind, there should only be a single variety of mitochondrial dna. no, provided we determine what a "kind" is, you have a working hypothesis. go prove it one way or the other. welcome to science.
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lfen Member (Idle past 4708 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
not to rag on the mormons much more, but it is my educated opinion that, for as many holes as there are in the bible, the bom is downright spurious in comparison. I'm not crazy about the BOM either, but there are millions of Mormons who live their lives believing it as the delivered word of God. I can't distinguish their belief process from the belief processes of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Bahai's etc. I'm partial to the Upanishads but I don't take the myths in them literally and they could be wrong about some fundamental stuff. The jury is still out. The sense I mean is found not in the books but in the believers. That believers convert from one religion to another demonstrates a similiar psychological process. Looking at a book all I see is something humans have written in a human language with human concepts. I can't tell from the book if its an inspired word of God. I tell that because there are people making that claim for it. (Well, I guess the Koran explicitly claims to be the word of God. I know little about it though.) lfen
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Thanks for the link.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
I'm not crazy about the BOM either, but there are millions of Mormons who live their lives believing it as the delivered word of God. I can't distinguish their belief process from the belief processes of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Bahai's etc. yes, true. they are every bit as nuts about their book as anybody else is about theirs.
The sense I mean is found not in the books but in the believers. fair 'nuff.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Don't you need to know exatly how many generations intervene? How does number of years tell you anything?
Why a single individual? Bottlenecks may reduce to a small number of individual that interbreed. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Don't you need to know exatly how many generations intervene? How does number of years tell you anything? well, since you accept population genetics... it has something with family trees, and at what point they diverge.
Why a single individual? Bottlenecks may reduce to a small number of individual that interbreed. ...two of every kind on the ark? one is female. that's the mitochondria we are looking for.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
That's only the unclean beasts. The clean were taken in sevens.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
That's only the unclean beasts. The clean were taken in sevens. uh, try again.
quote: the clean beasts were taken in sevens so they could be sacrificed. also so they could be eaten -- remember the very next chapter, where god tells noah he can eat meat?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
well, since you accept population genetics... it has something with family trees, and at what point they diverge And that's about number of actual generations, not years.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Where do you get that five of each Kind were sacrificed?
Sounds like ONE of each was taken, leaving six, or three pairs. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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