What are the Degrees of Fundamentalism?

Then what did you mean by your god "bothering" with the sparrows? Yes, there is a huge difference between a simple count and an exact inventory.

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I wonder just how many ways there are to misconstrue a simple reference to the verses about God taking note of the sparrow's fall, or make a word like "bother" into something unlikely like "rescue." Just means God takes note of the sparrow's fall, nothing more than the scripture says.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Just out of curiosity, what scripture are you referencing?

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Mat 10:29-30 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.Luk 12:6-7 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Thank you.I'm still not sure what you think the significance is. Not forgetting a sparrow is hardly in the same category as sending a tsunami.

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Something to do with your complaint about the idea of God "micromanaging" which you called "petty."

I have trouble believing my eyes.Are you really saying that you don't know if it is OK or not to burn witches and kill already born children for disobedience because they may challenge your belief system?I have known fundamentalist Christians in my time but I have never heard any state any doubts as to the immorality of executing (burning) witches or killing disobedient children. From this post you apparently belive such behaviors are open to debate. No one I have ever met in my life, Christian, Athiest, Bhuddist, Taoist, Muslim, Jewish, Wiccan, Satanist, or anyone else for that matter has ever had to think about the moral validity of burning witches or killing disobedient children, they all knew in their heads and their hearts it was absolutely morally wrong.I reiterate, I am absolutely astonished by this statement. What kind of fundamentalism is this? From my experience, it has nothing to do with anyone I have ever known.Edited by anglagard, : clarity

Allow me to review:You claimed that God controls the weather, sending storms to chase down the wicked wherever they may be. I suggested that God can have sovereignty over the whole creation without personally nudging every air molecule in His chosen direction.Then you brought up how God watches the sparrows, but you backed away from the idea that He actually does anything sparrow-related. Well, I watch the sparrows too, so I fail to see what your scripture reference has to do with the price of tea in China.We have already established in this thread that fundamentalism can vary from fairly normal to fairly looney. Where do you fit in the spectrum?

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So these "fundamentalists" deny the rightness of God's written laws for ancient Israel? Strange sort of fundamentalists.You of course think something more "tolerant" and soft should be the nature of God. Well, that's the way mere human nature always thinks. God gave the Bible to teach us truths we cannot imagine, that our human nature rebels against. The human heart can't stomach God's hard justice. But those laws were for making Israel holy, not just nice and adjusted and more or less socialized.The question is whether they could possibly apply outside that theocracy in a world that has no interest in being made holy. My answer to that is absolutely not. But MAYBE a theocracy, if such is possible. And that's what I'm not sure about. Well, hey, it's not about ME, it's about the BIBLE, which is God's word. And there is only ONE passage about an incorrigibly rebellious defiant teenager, not small children as you seem to be construing it.For ancient Israel there is no doubt the laws were good. Again, what I haven't worked out in my mind is whether there is any other context in which they could apply. Again, I tend to think not but I haven't studied the theology of the situation.But I suppose you will go on plastering me with your moralistic astonishment forever won't you? You'll ignore the context. You'll talk about me as if I said America should have laws to execute disobedient children willynilly, etc etc. etc. That's how I'm always misrepresented. Whatever.

Obviously I'm the looniest possible, Ringo. Let's just get that out of the way.The implication of the quoted scriptures is that God CARES about the sparrows, isn't merely a bird-watcher.

Cares about sparrows and yet sends storms to kill children?

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Do you know scripture at all? God is love. Amazing love. God cares about His entire creation. God watches over every living thing, and human beings are his greatest treasure. But He must punish sin because it opposes His very nature. Nevertheless this is called in scripture His "strange work," something not really in His nature, something required of His holiness in relation to sin.Those who trust Him and love Him and desire to meet His standards, to follow His laws, who try to be obedient and are genuinely repentant, however, need not fear anything from God. ONLY those who hate God have something to fear. And even then He is patient and longsuffering and wills that all come to repentance and salvation.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This son is probably even older than a teenager:Deu 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and [that], when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son [is] stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; [he is] a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.Exd 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Is that an African swallow or a European swallow - and what about the coconut?Ah - so maybe God knows the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow of either kind!Well somebody had to say it

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Oops! Wrong Planet

Yes, He is "in charge" of it. This is what He decided to to with it:Genesis 3:17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.God decided to curse the ground. That means no matter how well we behave, the ground will always be cursed, until God decides it not to be anymore. To me the ground is nature on the whole. It is from the hot, moist ground that tropical waves get their start.Plus if God is using nature to send His wrath, then He is using terrorists, and innocent Americans to show the rest of us His wrath?
Think about it, it doesn't make much sense. Preachers use these events to scare people into believing in God. It is ok to fear God, but I don't think it is a good or healthy form of evangilsing. They will know us by our deeds. We are to love. For 2,000 years they have been preaching that end of the world crap. It hasn't happened, so what is the sense? It makes no difference when the end will come, because we will all be judged at the appropiate time. I will live my life like Jesus is coming tomorrow, and like He is coming 1,000 years from now.I don't want to believe in God, because I fear the end of the world. The world is not important. I want to believe in God, because I know that He loves me, and He died for me, and set me free, showed me the truth. and allowed me to feel His love. I want others to feel His love also. The word omnipotent does not appear in the bible. So we don't really know for sure. If God was omnipotent, then why would He send people certain places to meet with Him? When Adam was in the garden, why did it take some time before God went looking for him, and see that he covered himself with a fig leaf?Does that mean He is not omnipotent? I don't know. I think you know the answer to that. I agree 100% (and thank you) This is not a something that just popped into my head. I thought long and hard about sending out "judgements" from God, and judging certain situations. It has taken me over 1 year and a lot of praying to come to the conclusion that I now have about it.I think to many people are caught up in the ways of the OT and automatically assign the phrase "God's wrath" to events that happen.The vail was torn, Faith, and the temple is us now. We don't need people/preists to tell us what is God's judgement or not. If we are being judged by God, He will let us know personally. We will know to the depth's of our hearts, and hopefully repent.There many explanations for "bad events" happening in our lives. When bad things happen to us, we often turn to God and say "why me?"
Some things are brought on by our behavior, but God (Holy Spirit) will let us know what that is. Some thing s are just trials and tribulations (which lead us to God), and some are temptations from the enemy of our souls.Was Hurricane Katrina sent by God? Yes, all hurricanes are. Was it God's wrath? I say no, it is just the world He has created for us to live in.