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Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Your eternal destination: you decide. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Subbie might as well have asked me "When is red?"
How does one go about answering non-questions? The question posed in the OP is not a non-question either for the athiest (for God can exist) or the person who thinks. believes, hopes that Allah or one of the other gods exists. They must both face the fact that God of the Bible can be a reality. They can consider the question in the light of that reality.
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
[The OP] might as well have asked [us] "When is red? How does one go about answering non-questions? The question posed [by Subbie] is not a non-question either for the athiest (for [Allah] can exist) or the person who thinks. believes, hopes that [the Trinity] or one of the other gods exists. They must both face the fact that God of the [Koran] can be a reality. They can consider the question in the light of that reality. Archer All species are transitional.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Or if he were real clever he'd give me 72 virgin females to cope with. They don't realize it, but when they get to heaven, there will be 72 virginians (not virgins) there waiting to kick their asses. Once again the lines between God and religion are blurred by people in this thread. Who ever thinks heaven will be filled with religious people, is probably mistaken, at least that's what the bible says. I can see from some responses that people are visioning heaven as hell, then choosing hell, because they feel it is better. But it is not about choosing once you die. Now is the time to choose, through every decision you make in life.
jar writes: Don't know I can't help but feel this is not the answer jar wants to give, but the answer he feels he should give. Whats the matter jar, your not forgiven? How can you not know, you don't remember everything you have done in your life? Well neither does Jesus. We are not perfect, and that's ok. Just as long as you are not knowingly evil, I would think, and hope that most of us here will be in heaven. My answer is heaven, and not by my own doing.
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iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
[The OP] might as well have asked [us] "When is red? How does one go about answering non-questions? The question posed [by Subbie] is not a non-question either for the athiest (for [Allah] can exist) or the person who thinks. believes, hopes that [the Trinity] or one of the other gods exists. They must both face the fact that God of the [Koran] can be a reality. They can consider the question in the light of that reality. You got a little mixed up there Archer. The "When is red?" bit doen't fit in this context. The OP is a valid question. I don't happen to fit into the category of Subbies question. I know God exists.
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
The "When is red?" bit doen't fit in this context. The OP is a valid question. I don't happen to fit into the category of Subbies question. I know God exists. Of course you do. Just like the Muslim knows Allah exists. It's an equivalent question. Archer All species are transitional.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
If one person calls you a jackass, you may freely ignore that opinion. If many people call you a jackass, you better check for long ears and a tail.
Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
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iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
If one person calls you a jackass, you may freely ignore that opinion. If many people call you a jackass, you better check for long ears and a tail. I've seen a lot of people tripping up over themselves: you with your mea culpa, Iceage with his RC offshoot-transmuted-into-rebuttal. Even the normally tight Archer can't string a satirical paraphrase together coherantly Jackass, heal thyself... Edited by iano, : No reason given.
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iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Read back: "a person believing, thinking, hoping God/Allah/Krisna exists" is not a person knowing.
For example: I believe/think/hope the sun will rise tomorrow. I don't know that it will. If someone were to ask me what would I do were it not to I could answer them. The person who knows Allah exists can't answer the OP - it equivilent in its being a non-question for them as it is for me.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Well, let's see...
So far in this thread, you are the only person who has suggested that there's anything wrong with my paraphrasing of your question. That's one. At least four people have said that your response is non-responsive; Archer, Iceage, tudwell and me. I think a quick trip to a mirror is in order for you. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
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iano Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
I see Archer has made at least some attempt to debate the issue. He hasn't been reading things very clearly though.
Neither you nor Iceage have attmpted debate - just assertion. So you two don't count (for all huffing and puffing) Tudwell? All he said was this:
Many atheists don't concede that God, as described in the Christian Bible, can exist, just as you don't concede that God as described in the Koran can exist. I asked him to name one atheist who doesn't concede that God of the Bible can exist and on what basis they do this . He never said. He doesn't mention anything about my being non-reponsive. So he shouldn't be counted in your armies of the disenfranchised. This is a debate forum Subbie - not a popularity contest. Debate if you like. Spare me the hand wringing... Edited by iano, : No reason given.
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
The person who knows Allah exists can't answer the OP - it equivilent in its being a non-question for them as it is for me. Hmmmmmmm..... You claim that you know god exists and, therefore, allah cannot exist. But here you allow for the possibility that someone else can know allah exists. Clearly two people cannot know two contradictory things. Believe it or not, I think this is a sign of progress! Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Ian, lets focus on the eternal destination rather than the personalities one encounters along the way!
WWJD? (In other words, lets steer back towards topic) Edited by AdminPhat, : add
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subbie Member (Idle past 1285 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Whoops! You seem to have missed message 35 above:
tudwell writes: If that's so, then why shouldn't Iano have to answer subbie's question: If I'm wringing my hands, it's only in delight, watching you twist about. Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
iano: Read back: "a person believing, thinking, hoping God/Allah/Krisna exists" is not a person knowing. For example: I believe/think/hope the sun will rise tomorrow. I don't know that it will. If someone were to ask me what would I do were it not to I could answer them. The person who knows Allah exists can't answer the OP - it equivilent in its being a non-question for them as it is for me. Donkey doo. Nothing stops a person from answering a hypothetical question regardless of what they know. One answers for the sake of argument. One answers hypothetically. One uses, in short, one's imagination. If one has any. I know the color red exists. That doesn't cause me to scramble for cover if someone asks how I might feel if it didn't. Nothing stops me from considering the idea and rummaging around in my being somewhere and framing an answer. And maybe I'll have some fun in the process. Your knowledge is clearly made of more fragile stuff. It doesn't say much for a person's confidence when they will not allow a question they ask of others to be entertained by themselves even hypothetically. People who know they stand on solid ground behave differently. They don't shrink from sticking their toes in the kiddie pool for fear that they'll drown. If they feel like sticking their toes in the water and swishing them around a bit, they do. They can. But I'm satisfied you won't answer. And truthfully, Iano, if your beliefs are that fragile I wouldn't want you to try. I would hate to be responsible for you losing your faith and undergoing an existential crisis and plunging yourself into a long dark night of the soul. By all means, protect what you have to protect. Keep those wagons circled. Give the world that stiffarm. Don't worry about your squeamish posts here. We'll just toss them into the old KFC bucket and call it a day. ___ Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo. Archer All species are transitional.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
iano
Even the most rabid athiest will accept that God of the Bible could inf fact exist.They would also accept that Heaven and Hell of the Bible could in fact exist (for simplicities sake: Heaven is bliss, Hell ain't) Actually this is not necessarily the case. If we allow for magic to occur in defiance of laws of the physical world and postulate the existence of a realm wherein these laws are manipulated then we could allow for such possibility. This, however, is assuming much that is uneccessary to explain the world and also does not really answer the questions we have except by handwaving them away.I have not heard persuasive arguements that have held up under scrutiny and questioning as far as the bible is concerned. So I will go on record as stating that I do not accept that such could exist. This being the case there is no God to send me anyhwere and the point becomes moot. Living forever , which seems to be a fervent wish of many who profess to believe,whether in heaven or hell, is something quite anethema to myself for reasons I have argued elsewhere at this site.
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