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Author | Topic: Fulfilled Prophecy | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 867 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
NJ explaining:
However, many of them do live a duplicitous life, including myself at times. But none of them exonerate that behavior which is why they attempt to do it clandestinely. Why? Because they know its wrong. I said that not one, whether they live a duplicitous life or not, tell others that its okay to steal, fornicate, lie, etc. Of course there are those that live a duplicitous life, but they don't go around telling others that its a-okay. OK, the phrase "none of them exonerate that behavior" threw me from your real intent as I sure have seen a lot of attempts among those listed, especially when first caught. That is, provided they actually managed to repent of their sins against at least some of the 10 commandments in the first place. Why are 'fundies' generally not known for chastising such behaviour in their allies? Why have these false prophets not been universally condemned by such "true" believers? Is the moral guidance provided through Biblical literalism and inerrancy so weak? Why?
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3628 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
A burden given to Archer Opterix concerning fundamentalists.
I predict that between now and the year 2030, surprising new events will happen, surprising new discoveries will be made, and surprising new stuff will be invented. I further predict that between now and the time the surprising events, discoveries, and stuff happen, are made, or are invented, the fundies won't see it coming any more than any other segment of the general public. I further predict that after the surprising events, discoveries, and stuff happen, are made, or are invented, the fundies will be saying they knew it all along because their Bible foretold it. The passages they cite will be taken out of context. None will actually mention the events, discoveries, and things the fundies claim. Yet the fundies will not only insist that their interpretation is obvious, they will stigmatize as immoral anyone who doesn't understand the passages as they do. Logically they will be casting the same moral aspersions on all persons in our own time, including all of today's fundies. Including their present selves. This is a prediction you can take to the bank. Revisit this message two decades from now and you will find every word fulfilled. __ Archer All species are transitional.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
I predict that between now and the year 2030, surprising new events will happen, surprising new discoveries will be made, and surprising new stuff will be invented.
You forgot: there will be war and rumors of war. Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
arachnophilia writes: most of the tribes of israel are still missing. Have you tried looking in Utah? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Couldn't we assume the same for everyone that doesn't agree with our particular brand of philosophy? there is disagreement, and there is declaring anything refuting your point to be off-topic, sticking your fingers in your ears, and shouting "lalalalalala!" i respect disagreement. it is the soul of debate, and debate is the key to understanding and learning. i would not be here if i did not think this way. but continually say things that are so easily demonstrated to be inaccurate, after so much evidence has been given to you that it is in fact wrong, and then behave as bux often has in the past... i can't see that as simple difference in opinion. he does not want to learn or understand. he wants to evangelize.
Are you saying that you have knowingly proposed falsehoods in the past? yes, i have been known to do so simply for the sake of argument on many occasions. i often espouse ideas i don't even agree with, simply to test the worth of other peoples' arguments. i have to test them somehow. but that wasn't what i meant. i meant that i'm an art student. we're all full of bs; it's part of the job description. ever tried to write a paper about why a painting is important or good? bs. let me tell you. because "i like it" doesn't cut it, you need to find some intellectual-sounding mumbo-jumbo to make your view sound important. i just mean to say that i do not take myself seriously, except on a few issues.
You have given your opinion, as have I, as has Buz, as has everyone. There's only one way to know who is right with empirical certainty-- and that's when the veracity of God is revealed. Oh but see, even that's my opinion as some would say, "Well, I don't believe that God exists so you can't say there is only one way." And I would say, "Okay. Then we'll just see what see." i agree that there is right and wrong. that's actually one of the reasons i'm taking exception to this model of prophecy. it seems to contend that there is no "right" way of reading it, and that we can apply it to anything we chose. for horoscopes, this may be true, but for biblical prophecy it just is not. the prophets always meant something specific, even in their metaphorical passages, and the meaning is generally fairly clear (with a few notable exceptions).
Unfortunately, clarity is seldom understood by all. To me, nature is obviously the handiwork of an intelligent designer. But my detractors would say, oh contraire. In which case, we're right back to square one. not analagous at all. there is no debate that bible was written by intelligent entities with set intentions and meanings. and the clarity of the thoughts of those authors is rather hard to miss, with decent translation and some degree of reading skill.
That would depend on whether or not my e-meter was working properly. Heh. touche.
I think I'm the only one not over-reading. I've said numerous times that the passage is rather cryptic, but I would say that it makes allusions towards a technology not known from the past. But, if you want to challenge that, feel free. It really doesn't matter either way to me. i don't especially want to get into revelation, because it is the one major counter-example to my principle about the clarity of the text. revelation is downright mysterious and cryptic. and to tell you the truth, i don't know what it means.
Seems to me that the book is entirely prophetic in nature. visions often are. but prophecy is something specific, delivered (often orally) to the masses, in rather concrete terms. visions are often the source for prophecy (among other things i'm sure) but are not themselves the message. prophecy is not coded; visions are.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
This is a prediction you can take to the bank. Revisit this message two decades from now and you will find every word fulfilled. yup. it surprisingly as more merit than any of theirs. vague truisms before the fact are worth more in terms of prediction than weasling after the fact.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
arachnophilia writes: most of the tribes of israel are still missing. Have you tried looking in Utah? no, just south africa and ethiopia. although, those lds-folk might have some claim -- wandering out into the desert in search of a promised land is certainly a very jewish thing to do.
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ReverendDG Member (Idle past 4141 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: |
Have you tried looking in Utah?
don't you mean on reservations?
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ReverendDG Member (Idle past 4141 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: |
Actually the KJV says its interpreted God with us not god is with us in reference to Immanuel
yes and the KJV is a corrupt translation and tries to perpetulate lies
kjv Isaiah 9:6-7 This child government would be an everlasting government. Ahaz child was never named Immanuel (meaning God with us) not God is with us, etc... God is with us is part of the stumbling block why its a rock of offense to both houses of Israel, and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for God has hidden his face from the house of Jacob which is why they missed the visitation and the Age of the Gentile. kjv Isaiah 8:14
sorry you are just wrong and so is the KJV, its a bad translation of a translationhttp://www.biblicalresources.info/pages/isaiah/immanuel.html a nice explaination of what it means Isaiah 8:10 ("Take counsel together, but it will come to nothing; Speak the word, but it will not stand, For God is with us"). and the child is of isaiah not ahaz, he would be a sign from god, that god is with ahaz and israel aganst his foes Were in the Age of the Gentiles too A Christian the Lord Jesus is a Sanctuary not a rock of offense. However prophecy talks of the Jewish people repenting when the Lord Jesus returns for his prophecied 1000 year government from Jerusalem where Gentiles too will rule and reign with Christ. kjv Isaiah 9:7 revelation 20:4-7
why is this even relevent? its just a bunch of scripture glued togathe and renders it meaningless without context
Christian doctrine is such that we believe that any spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God. kjv 1 John 4:3
why is this relevent?
Christians believe Jesus Christ is God with us not that God is with us but that in him dwelleth all the fullness of the godhead bodily. kjv Col 2:9
thats nice but 'god is with us' is what immanuel means, are you going to argue with a whole nation of people who know thier own nameing convention and 4 thousand years of biblical history?
Its now whosoever recieves him not just the Jew can become sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. kjv john 1:12
did i say anyone couldn't god created us, we are all sons of god or daughters as well, of course people need to explain to me how jesus is the only son of god, since theres a lot of people called son of god in the bible
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5622 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
did i say anyone couldn't god created us, we are all sons of god or daughters as well, of course people need to explain to me how jesus is the only son of god, since theres a lot of people called son of god in the bible Its said that were all biological sons of God thru Adam being created by God but Christians when they are spiritually reborn become the sons of God thru Christ because Christ is spiritually the Son of God, The Word, the only begotten of the Father(true light of true light). The Gospel of John explains that he is the Word that the only begotten of the Father was sent and that he was not of this world and that those that are spiritually reborn of God in Christ are not of this world but in this world. This is why the Virgin birth satisfies the Lords geneologies going thru Nathan that biologically The Lord Jesus is the son of David going thru Nathan. The biological blood line expressed in Luke is not a contradiction but a confirmation of Genesis that Jesus was made of a woman. The seed of a woman as expressed in genesis and galatians but that does not mean he is not the son of Joesph but only that he is not the biological son of Joesph. He is the son of Joesph thru Joesph marriage to Mary but his biological genes however goes thru Mary. Galatians confirms that he was made of a Woman and scripture in Genesis too refers to the seed of the woman. It was a virgin birth, etc... This is how the Lord Jesus is the rightful heir to the throne of David thru Solomon by his adoption by Joesph but that his biological blood line goes thru Nathan to his being the son of David. Edited by Charley, : No reason given. Edited by Charley, : No reason given. Edited by Charley, : No reason given. Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5622 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
The Lords geneologies goes thru Nathan and not Solomon to David is due to Gods anger with Solomon
read matthew again: quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mat 1:7 And Solomon begat Roboam; -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i am forced to believe you have never read matthew. solomon is not 7 verses in! He was adopted by Joesph his biological genes go thru Nathan, matthews genologies and lukes geneologies do not conflict but confirm that the virgin birth prophecy was fullfilled. -------------------------- The Genealogies of Jesus Christ: Not Found Edited by Charley, : No reason given. Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
He was adopted by Joesph Being adopted, although a admirable act, does not mean that the adopted child has your blood. The messiah is to be of Davud's bloodline, and there is no way to link Jesus to the BLOOD of David.
his biological genes go thru Nathan, Which is no good. The prophecy goes though Solomon, so the author of matthew's gospel has effectively negated jesus' claim to messiahship. Only one problem of many I may add.
matthews genologies and lukes geneologies do not conflict but confirm that the virgin birth prophecy was fullfilled. The virgin birth prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled in Isaiah 8: It will overflow all its channels,run over all its banks and sweep on into Judah, swirling over it,passing through it and reaching up to the neck. Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land, O Immanuel There he is, right before your eyes, Immanuel, whose name means God with us, not in person of course, but God is with us in purpose. But, as you can see, Immanuel has already been born, being the subject referred to by the 'your' in 'your land'. Isn't it amazing how easy it is to rip the Bible apart and show that Jesus was no messiah? All you have to do is read the Bible and think a little for yourself. Also, as I never tire of telling some Xians, Isaiah 7:14 is not even a messianic prophecy. Why not study Jusdaism for a bit, then reassess the NT? I asked earlier, and you perhaps missed it, but who was the virgin in the Book of Isaiah that gave birth to a son? (clue: isaiah 8:3) Brian.
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johnfolton  Suspended Member (Idle past 5622 days) Posts: 2024 Joined: |
The virgin birth prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled in Isaiah 8: Mahershalahashbaz is a different prophecy was fullfilled when Assyria took the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria was taken away before the king of Assyria. The reference to O Immanuel is that even though Assyria overfilled the breath of the land that God was with them. Mahershalahashbaz was warned not to take counsel against this prophecy for it would not stand for God was with them. Mahershalahashbaz is being warned not to walk in the ways of this people. Instead to Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself, and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary but a rock and an offence to both the houses of Israel for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. And I will wait upon the Lord that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. kjv Isaiah 9:17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, "but" his hand is stretched out still. Edited by Charley, : No reason given. Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
MikeTW writes: ....... I see prophecies as potentially persuasive at best, but they'll always commit a host of falacies unfortunately, which is unsatisfactory to a skeptic. It's unfair to expect a skeptic to believe, when he has no reason to. Hi Mike. It's also unfair for my counterpart skeptics to essentially cancel out the very words of the text which I've shown to apply to a number of other nations than Ninevah, infact the entire world, naming them by text quote, all the way from chapter one verse 2 through chapter 2 verse 8. LOL, they choose not to believe, no matter what empirical documentation the prophecy advocate produces. Why? Because for any of them to admit to even one tiny miracle would be to destroy their secularist mindset. Not only that but they totally ignore the fact that many of the events of chapter one of Nahum have never been fulfilled and that I posted near verbatum (abe: equivalant) events also prophesied in the book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible which have yet to be fulfilled. If they were rational in their responses, they would admit that if it could not have possibly have applied to the city of Ninevah, that introductory segment of the book had to apply to the named groups of the text being debated. Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5945 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
Never mind....
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
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