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Author | Topic: Homosexuality, the natural choice? (Gay Animals are Common) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5528 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Dan, you said:
...Post an ad looking for NSA sex.
Daah, I duuno, Dan, there's just something about your request... ”Hoot Mon
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Daah, I duuno, Dan, there's just something about your request... So you can't choose to enjoy sex with another man? (Or another woman, if you happen to be female.) If homosexuality is a choice, it shouldn't matter whether or not you want to. You'll choose to want to.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If I were a black person I might be insulted by your remark. Perhaps, but many black leaders have expressed solidarity with gay persons precisely because they recognize that the struggle for equality is exactly the same.
Please, how should racial rights extend all the way to homosexual rights under the law? Not racial rights, civil rights. There's no such thing as "racial rights." There's merely equal protection under the law, as guaranteed by our Constitution.
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5528 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
crashfrog, re:
Not racial rights, civil rights. There's no such thing as "racial rights." There's merely equal protection under the law, as guaranteed by our Constitution. Good point! Human rights”civil rights”rights of the human race. My main issue is determining whether or not people make a CHOICE to be gay. If they are gay by way of genetic predisposition, that's one thing”it's not a matter of choice for them. But if they CHOOSE to be gay, that's quite another. Personally, I suspect they do not choose to be gay; I think it is probably genetically predisposed. So they should have all the rights they deserve. I even think they deserve to be civilly united if the choose, but I don't think they deserve to be married per se. Question: Do I have to be a frickin' fundy to think that "marriage" is a heterosexual affair, and that "civil union" is a homosexual affair? What part of this is so oppressive to gays? ”Hoot Mon
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Do I have to be a frickin' fundy to think that "marriage" is a heterosexual affair, and that "civil union" is a homosexual affair? What part of this is so oppressive to gays? Asked and answered. When I replied to this and asked you why seperate "but equal" accomodations, public facilities, etc. represented a civil rights violation for black people - plus that there's more than 1000 Federal rights granted only to married couples - how didn't you understand that as the answer to your question? I'm just curious what kind of mental block is going on here for you, since it appears that we're right back where we started.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
So you can't choose to enjoy sex with another man? If I am unable to choose to be gay then that means that nobody is able to? What about heteros that spend too much time in jail and then turn gay? Or do you think that ones sexuality is unchangeable?
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Taz Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
You still haven't addressed my point. Why is it that you people always say you support civil union yet always legislate and vote for legislations that not only ban gay marriage but all so ALL forms of civil union for gay people? The latest state to ban gay marriage is wisconsin. Their ban also include ALL forms of union that remotely resemble marriage.
As the old saying goes, seperate but equal my ass. AKA G.A.S.B.Y. George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger
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Taz Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Catholic writes:
I'm curious about this. Do tell us whatever experiences you've had or stories you've heard about straight people turning gay in jail. What about heteros that spend too much time in jail and then turn gay? AKA G.A.S.B.Y. George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
What about heteros that spend too much time in jail and then turn gay? They turn straight when they get out. Look, think of it like this. If you jack off, are you gay? Cuz technically it was a dude's hand on your junk? No, right? Because it's more about what's going on in your head than what's going on below the belt. Plenty of gay men have had sex with women; they were thinking of guys, usually, while they were doing it, which is how they came to understand that they were gay. And sometimes straight people have gay sex because it's all they can get, like kids in boarding school or prison inmates. Artifical restrictions on sexual access aren't fruitful in regards to determining orientation. It's people's free behavior that is indicative.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
If I am unable to choose to be gay then that means that nobody is able to? I can't say what everyone on the planet is capable of doing. But if a person such as you or Hoot Mon is incapable of choosing your sexuality, then it seems a bit silly for either of you to insist that it's what others are doing.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
My main issue is determining whether or not people make a CHOICE to be gay. You have been given a very simple way of answering this. Repeating the question doesn't mean the answer isn't staring you in the face. Heck, because I'm such a nice guy, I'll go ahead and give you another possible test, that won't even involve touching another guy. 1) Rent a gay porn movie. 2) Watch it. 3) Choose to get an erection.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3320 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Dan, it doesn't work if Hoot is a teen. A teen gets an erection while looking at jello.
AKA G.A.S.B.Y. George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote: No, I don't think that at all. Human behavior is neither natural or unnatural. Termites, for example, have natural behavior. Termites don't have to be taught to build nests or feed the queen or rear young or guard the entrance. They just do these things automatically, as part of their programming. Termites are simply organic machines acting according to preset programming. Termites do have behavior that is entirely natural. Humans, on the other hand, have very few, if any, behaviors that are the result of prewired programming. It seems possible, in light of some scientific studies, that some individuals have a biology based predisposition that, when exposed to some sort of environmental stimulus, will more likely result in an individual that is sexually attracted to individuals of the same sex. Just as there are some individuals that, without any biological predisposition whatsoever, will, when exposed to some sort of environmental stimulus, result in an individual that is sexually attracted to individuals of the same sex. And/or there are individuals who have this biological predisposition but, presumably due to the environment that they were exposed to (either prenatally or post-natal socially), did not develop into an individual that is sexually attracted to members of the same sex. If there is one thing that seems clear, especially when observing different cultures and how real individuals actually behave in a given culture, is that humans are not "naturally" anything. If they are naturally anything, then they are natural bisexual polygamists, and the predominance of obligate heterosexual behavior among American males is probably due to cultural conditioning, not because heterosexuality is somehow more "natural" than homosexual behavior. I have always preferred, as guides to human action, messy hypothetical imperatives like the Golden Rule, based on negotiation, compromise and general respect, to the Kantian categorical imperatives of absolute righteousness, in whose name we so often murder and maim until we decide that we had followed the wrong instantiation of the right generality. -- Stephen Jay Gould
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5528 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
TD wrote:
Dan, it doesn't work if Hoot is a teen. A teen gets an erection while looking at jello.
The last time I got sexually aroused over Jello was when my high school girl friend dropped it down her blouse and I went fishing for it. That was over 50 years ago. ”Hoot Mon
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5528 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
crashfrog wrote:
Asked and answered. When I replied to this and asked you why seperate "but equal" accomodations, public facilities, etc. represented a civil rights violation for black people - plus that there's more than 1000 Federal rights granted only to married couples - how didn't you understand that as the answer to your question?
If I'm a black person and you say I can't drink water from a public fountain, is that the same thing as if I'm gay person and you say I can't get "married" at a public courthouse? Is it? That's really what I'm questioning here. Let me ask you why gays suffer when they can't get "married" under the law but still gain, via civil union, all of the technical rights that heterosexual married people enjoy. I say let them have everthing but the title of being "married." What's so bad about that?
I'm just curious what kind of mental block is going on here for you, since it appears that we're right back where we started.
I must have the obnoxious gene for questioning half-baked opinions. ”Hoot Mon
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