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Author Topic:   Is creationism science?
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6631
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 91 of 114 (393570)
04-05-2007 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by b b
04-05-2007 6:09 PM


A better analogy would be a nut who claims that the car was magically assembled by elves and runs off of pixy dust (and who will never change her mind) versus an engineer who describes the workings of an internal combustion engine, giving us the exact specs when she examines the car, and correcting some of her earlier estimates.


Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by b b, posted 04-07-2007 3:05 AM Chiroptera has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1867
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 92 of 114 (393588)
04-05-2007 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by b b
04-05-2007 7:20 PM


Re: science
Creationists see the same evidence evolutionists see. We just get something different

you get something different because you ASSume that your mythology is true.


Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
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b b
Member (Idle past 4298 days)
Posts: 77
From: baton rouge, La, usa
Joined: 09-25-2005


Message 93 of 114 (393790)
04-07-2007 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by DrJones*
04-05-2007 8:42 PM


Re: science
you get something different because you ASSume that what I believe is mythology.
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b b
Member (Idle past 4298 days)
Posts: 77
From: baton rouge, La, usa
Joined: 09-25-2005


Message 94 of 114 (393791)
04-07-2007 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Chiroptera
04-05-2007 7:42 PM


A better analogy would be a nut who claims that the car was magically assembled by elves and runs off of pixy dust (and who will never change her mind) versus an engineer who describes the workings of an internal combustion engine, giving us the exact specs when she examines the car, and correcting some of her earlier estimates.

correcting early estimates mean the early estimate was wrong. The creator already knew "the workings of an internal combustion engine" and "the exact specs" so no need for wrong estimates. Nobody said magic or pixy dust. Everything you discover he designed. Anything you discover this year; he knew at the beginning of the earth. You're late. To every knew idea to a scientist God says duuuhhh.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Chiroptera, posted 04-05-2007 7:42 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 95 of 114 (393798)
04-07-2007 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by b b
04-05-2007 6:41 PM


quote:
I do believe science falls in "my" definition of a religion. A group of ideas/beliefs which explain life.

You are entitled to use your own personal definitions of things, but not to have people accept them.

I think your definition of science is terribly inaccurate at best and self-serving at worst.

quote:
For those who don't understand how this does relate, Creationism is (supposedly) derived from the creator. Once you believe this to be true; you understand that creationism was here first(without that name of course) and has a totally different method (knowing the truth first and then trying to prove it).

But Creationism has never been right about anything relating to the natural world.

Any sort of test against the natural world we subject Creationism to shows it to be in error.

So, if what Creationists say is true about the natural world doesn't actually end up being true about the natural world, then it seems that Creationism is wrong, doesn't it?

Creationists stagnate. They unchangeingly continue to believe, despite the evidence right in front of them, they know the "truth", while science actually continues to get righter and righter.

Creationism contributes nothing to our understanding of the natural world, even though it claims to have "the truth". It has developed no technology, no medical understanding, no ability to predict any future occurance in nature whatsoever. It is ueselss.

The reason it is useless is because it is wrong.


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nator
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 96 of 114 (393799)
04-07-2007 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by b b
04-07-2007 2:55 AM


Re: science
quote:
you get something different because you ASSume that what I believe is mythology.

OK, then. Show us that it isn't mythology.


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 Message 93 by b b, posted 04-07-2007 2:55 AM b b has responded

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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6631
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 97 of 114 (393818)
04-07-2007 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by b b
04-07-2007 3:05 AM


quote:
The creator already knew "the workings of an internal combustion engine" and "the exact specs" so no need for wrong estimates.

I think my analogy is more apt than yours.

-

quote:
correcting early estimates mean the early estimate was wrong.

Well, that is what intelligent people do. Intelligent people recognize that they are wrong when the data show that they are wrong and make corrections.

Creationists, on the other hand, insist that they are correct even when the data shows that they are wrong. That seems to me to be the opposite of intelligent.

Edited by Chiroptera, : Less confrontational.


Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine
This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by b b, posted 04-07-2007 3:05 AM b b has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by b b, posted 04-08-2007 4:06 AM Chiroptera has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 114 (393820)
04-07-2007 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by b b
04-07-2007 3:05 AM


To every knew idea to a scientist God says duuuhhh.

Well, I like to think that if God exists, he's a little more charitable towards the people who have devoted their lives to uncovering the mystery of his creation. But, if you insist that your God acts like a petulant 10-year-old, I guess I'll have to take your word for it. (We do, after all, create God in our image.)

Nonetheless - it's interesting that, despite what you say, the Bible has been the source of absolutely zero scientific knowledge of any kind.


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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 3687 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 99 of 114 (393843)
04-07-2007 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by b b
04-07-2007 3:05 AM


To every knew idea to a scientist God says duuuhhh.

You may be right, if it turns out there is a god.

But even if there is a god, you (or any other creationist) do not hold exclusive rights over the word of god on earth. You (or any other creationist) have not given us any reason to believe that what you say and think is any closer to the true nature of god then anybody else (off course you may think you are, but that is assuming too much -- an act of hubris)

Given that, we are left with comparing your claims with the evidence (obtained through experiments directly from the world itself -- the only incontestable source of knowlege of god`s nature we have access to -- god`s creation). Once your claims have failed this most important test, to hold on to preconceived beliefs in the face of evidence would be insane and ungodly.

That`s why creationism is not only bad science. It`s also bad theology.

Edited by fallacycop, : typos


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b b
Member (Idle past 4298 days)
Posts: 77
From: baton rouge, La, usa
Joined: 09-25-2005


Message 100 of 114 (393869)
04-08-2007 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by nator
04-07-2007 7:52 AM


Re: science
OK, then. Show us that it isn't mythology.

I can't show you only God can. Unfortunately the bible says you have to believe in him to see it. If you really want to find out donate 1 year of your life to truly seek him. I bet you would find out. I don't mean going to church either. I mean reading his word and praying to him. It won't hurt. No one would know (until you get blessed and tell everybody you meet like I do). Nothing to lose. you'll be living for a year right.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1867
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 101 of 114 (393870)
04-08-2007 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by b b
04-08-2007 3:48 AM


Re: science
If you really want to find out donate 1 year of your life to truly seek him. I bet you would find out. I don't mean going to church either. I mean reading his word and praying to him. It won't hurt. No one would know (until you get blessed and tell everybody you meet like I do). Nothing to lose. you'll be living for a year right.

Of course there is something to lose, by praying to your false god I'd be angering the King of Kings and Lord of Lords Odin the Allfather.

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by b b, posted 04-08-2007 3:48 AM b b has not yet responded

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b b
Member (Idle past 4298 days)
Posts: 77
From: baton rouge, La, usa
Joined: 09-25-2005


Message 102 of 114 (393872)
04-08-2007 4:06 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Chiroptera
04-07-2007 12:53 PM


Creationists, on the other hand, insist that they are correct even when the data shows that they are wrong. That seems to me to be the opposite of intelligent.

Obviously you don't know the first thing(literally) about what they believe. It's not that they are right. It's that God is right. The scientific method would be to say the eggs were scrambled from the heat of the skillet accompanied by the adjutation from the movement of the spatula. Creationists would say mom made them. But it's really hard to see that "Mom" heated up the skillet and was holding the spatula if you don't believe in a mom.


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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 2277 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 103 of 114 (393873)
04-08-2007 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by b b
04-08-2007 3:48 AM


Re: science
I can't show you only God can. Unfortunately the bible says you have to believe in him to see it. If you really want to find out donate 1 year of your life to truly seek him. I bet you would find out. I don't mean going to church either. I mean reading his word and praying to him. It won't hurt. No one would know (until you get blessed and tell everybody you meet like I do). Nothing to lose. you'll be living for a year right.

so basicly you give no reason to accept its not mythology. if i have to believe to understand it, then by defintion there goes all want of knowledge of anything
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 2277 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 104 of 114 (393874)
04-08-2007 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by DrJones*
04-08-2007 3:52 AM


Re: science
Of course there is something to lose, by praying to your false god I'd be angering the King of Kings and Lord of Lords Odin the Allfather.

Odins a wuss,Tyr's the man! he faced down a giant wolf and let the thing take his hand without flinching!
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b b
Member (Idle past 4298 days)
Posts: 77
From: baton rouge, La, usa
Joined: 09-25-2005


Message 105 of 114 (393875)
04-08-2007 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by crashfrog
04-07-2007 2:26 PM


Nonetheless - it's interesting that, despite what you say, the Bible has been the source of absolutely zero scientific knowledge of any kind.

well it was written so that people could understand it 2000 years ago also. In an experiment (maybe evolutionists can understand this way), you wouldn't tell the rat the way out. You want it to find it for itself. Life is our experiment. Pass or fail? It's learning the true way out the maze.

Edited by b b, : add to.


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