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Author Topic:   Is creationism science?
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3989 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 31 of 114 (371170)
12-20-2006 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by 4Pillars
12-20-2006 1:53 PM


Re: Genesis & Science
4pillars writes:

1) Science agrees that the 3 basic elements are necessary (Air, Dust & Water) for a physical form. And you disagree with science?

I detect the presence of Loki


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by 4Pillars, posted 12-20-2006 1:53 PM 4Pillars has not yet responded

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 114 (371173)
12-20-2006 2:21 PM


Genesis and the Big Bang
Albert Einstein, when asked his worse mistake, said that it was assuming that there was another force, besides Gravity, which could explain the Galaxies movements.

Today, Evolutionists are dumbfounded by the latest Hubble discoveries that Galaxies are increasing in speed. These arrogant evols /scientists are trying to say that Einstein was wrong about his worse mistake. They claim that there must be some Undetected, Undiscovered, Mysterious force which is causing the Galaxies to move apart at increasing Speed.

The answer is that the 1st World was formed in the midst of the Waters, and our present World is formed in the midst of the Dust. The Galaxies are being drawn toward the larger mass of Dust which surrounds our World, and are increasing in speed as they approach the Firmament which surrounds our World.

At the end of the present 6th Day, the Stars will fall from the Sky and brimstone, dust and fire, will fall from Heaven. Everyone will then know that the flawed assumptions of mortal men, who believe that some unseen, unknown, undiscovered force, is propelling these Galaxies apart is nothing short of biblical ignorance. Evolutionist could avoid making such ignorant assumptions if they would read Scripture.

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, v25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.. v26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 3:43 PM 4Pillars has not yet responded
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16223
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 33 of 114 (371189)
12-20-2006 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by 4Pillars
12-20-2006 2:21 PM


Re: Genesis and the Big Bang
4Pillars writes:

Evolutionists are dumbfounded by the latest Hubble discoveries that Galaxies are increasing in speed.

Biology and cosmology are completely different subjects, so it's no surprize that evolutionists don't fully understand galaxies.

These arrogant evols /scientists are trying to say that Einstein was wrong about his worse mistake.

Einstein was wrong about a lot of things. Were you under the impression that everything Einstein said was carved in stone?

Evolutionist could avoid making such ignorant assumptions if they would read Scripture.

As a rule, the evolutionists around here are far less ignorant about scripture than the creationists are.

-------------

Welcome to EvC. Keep your Kevlar handy. :)


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This message is a reply to:
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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3989 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 34 of 114 (371196)
12-20-2006 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by 4Pillars
12-20-2006 2:21 PM


Re: Genesis and the Big Bang
And the stars of heaven shall fall

Say there 4pillars do think that statement shows cosmological insight.

And Buzsaw was concerned that Confidence was making Creationist a disservice, you on the other hand are making Confidence look good.


This message is a reply to:
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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2185
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 35 of 114 (371198)
12-20-2006 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by 4Pillars
12-20-2006 1:53 PM


Re: Genesis & Science
4Pillars writes:

Science agrees that the 3 basic elements are necessary (Air, Dust & Water) for a physical form. And you disagree with science?

Science would be stating there are three states of matter everyone encounters on Earth, gas, solid, and liquid. This corresponds to your air, dust and water far better than the current number of elements which is 117 and counting, according to Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elements_by_number

Of course there are other states of matter, such as plasma. These states are just not usually encountered on Earth outside of a few real serious nuclear laboratories so far as I know.

There has been a lot of progress in chemistry since the elements were considered earth, air, fire, and water by the ancient Greeks.

The Bible makes a lot of testable scientific citings & predictions - contrary to your unfounded OPINION.

Do you want me to cite you one?

Please feel free to cite as many as you can come up with, I for one would be very interested in seeing any that could actually make the cut.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by 4Pillars, posted 12-20-2006 1:53 PM 4Pillars has not yet responded

    
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 114 (371211)
12-20-2006 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Buzsaw
12-08-2006 6:53 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
Buzsaw>>By the time life was created there was dry ground separated from the waters creating oceans, lakes, et al. Then when God works to create life, it always says he worked with dust/earth/ground and not water. <<

Dear Buzsaw,

Scripture says every living creatures that moveth and hath life originated from the waters. Science agrees.

Perhaps, you miss reading these text...

Genesis 1
20 And God said, Let the WATERS bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and EVERY LIVING CREATURE that moveth, which the WATERS BROUGHT FORTH ABUNDANTLY, after their kind, and EVERY winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

God Bless

Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16223
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 37 of 114 (371215)
12-20-2006 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by 4Pillars
12-20-2006 5:13 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
4Pillars writes:

Scripture says every living creatures that moveth and hath life originated from the waters.

Perhaps you missed reading these texts:

quote:
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

quote:
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

quote:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

According to the Bible, only fish and fowl came from the water. Everything else came from the land.

Unless you're saying that the fishies crawled out of the water and grew legs.... :)


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by 4Pillars, posted 12-20-2006 5:13 PM 4Pillars has responded

Replies to this message:
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4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 114 (371230)
12-20-2006 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by ringo
12-20-2006 5:30 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
Dear Ringo,

That is just based on your religious view. Perhaps, I can explain further.....

The Scripture is very clear documenting us that EVERY LIVING CREATURE THAT MOVETH AND HATH LIFE (including prehistoric mankind) were brought forth by the waters abundantly on the 5th day.

The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust, on the 6th Day, is when YHWH/Jesus (the Son of God) sqeezed, as a potter would mould clay, and formed living creatures from the dust of the ground.

IOW, God created every living creature that moveth, from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced His/their Kinds from the dust of the ground, on the 6th Day.

Science agrees that all living creature originated from the waters.

God Bless


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 5:30 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 6:12 PM 4Pillars has responded
 Message 40 by Percy, posted 12-20-2006 6:28 PM 4Pillars has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16223
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 39 of 114 (371232)
12-20-2006 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by 4Pillars
12-20-2006 6:05 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
4Pillars writes:

The Scripture is very clear documenting us that EVERY LIVING CREATURE THAT MOVETH AND HATH LIFE (including prehistoric mankind) were brought forth by the waters abundantly on the 5th day.

On the contrary, the scripture as I QUOTED it says nothing of the kind - not in any way shape or form.

You can't just make up any old nonsense you like and mangle the Bible beyond recognition to try to make it agree with science. That's just bad theology (and it ain't science either).


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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18308
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 40 of 114 (371234)
12-20-2006 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by 4Pillars
12-20-2006 6:05 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
Hi 4Pillars,

I'm having trouble making sense out of your position. You seem to be saying that science agrees with the Biblical account. It doesn't. That's why there's a debate. It is because science disagrees with the Biblical account that evangelical Christians object to the teaching of some scientific theories in public schools, primarily the theory of evolution. Were there no such disagreement, evangelical Christians would not be objecting to the teaching of evolution.

Science agrees that all living creature originated from the waters.

The Bible talks of only one origin, that of all life over several of the six days of creation. Science believes there were two origins, one that represents the first life, and another that is actually many origins, the origins of all species, both extinct and extant, over the approximately 3.8 billion years of earth history.

While there is much speculation, science hasn't reached any conclusions about the origin of life. Most speculation involves an aqueous environment, but not all. For example, some speculate about mineral or clay origins for life.

Concerning the origin of species, land species evolve on land, not water.

Because of all this, it would not be correct to state that science agrees that all living creatures originated from the waters, because science does not believe this is the case.

Trying to bring discussion back toward the topic, a necessary strategy for promoting creationism in public schools is to hide or disguise its religious foundation. For that reason, when lobbying school boards, legislatures and text book publishers, creationists never mention religion in any way, especially not God and the Bible, for to bring religion into the presentation would lose outright. The constitutional requirement of separation of church and state forbids our government from favoring any particular religious view, and so arguing for creationism using religious arguments can only fail.

So what creationists do is the precise opposite of what you're doing: they argue that the scientific evidence actually supports a young earth and a global flood, and that evolution and geology are wrong. To this end they write their own "scientific" papers and stage their own "scientific" conferences. Despite these efforts, courts have consistently ruled that creationism, and more recently ID, is just thinly disguised religion.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by 4Pillars, posted 12-20-2006 6:05 PM 4Pillars has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by 4Pillars, posted 12-20-2006 6:46 PM Percy has responded

    
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 114 (371238)
12-20-2006 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
12-20-2006 6:12 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
Dear Ringo,

I am so sorry for your lack of spiritual understanding of the Scripture. Perhaps, you need to read the Scripture more often -- to get more wisdom and understanding.

Here's what the Scripture says in full context and not what you cited.

Genesis 1
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and EVERY living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and EVERY winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Note: Who do you think God was blessing - when he told THEM (pronoun) to multiply on the 5th day (Gen 1:22)?

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and EVERY thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

I would appreciate if you clarify the things you don't understand first before you embarrassing yourself.

God Bless


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 6:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 7:27 PM 4Pillars has responded

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 114 (371240)
12-20-2006 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Percy
12-20-2006 6:28 PM


Re: Micro-evolution of Prehistoric Mankind & Human
Dear Percy,

When Jesus made the creatures, -- including the prehistoric mankind -- He made them in various "kinds", His kinds. No one knows His classification system except He, Himself. Some theorize that the kinds could be creeping, walking, crawling, flying, etc. kinds.

Microevolution or descent with modification happens every time a baby is born. It is God's way of keeping "kinds" within their own "kinds". Micro assures that dogs remain dogs... cats, remain cats...they evolve or change...but within their own "kind".

Example: Cat's Family - A Lion (male) and a Tiger (female) producing a Giant "LIGER". See link (scroll all the way down).

http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/ligers.html

See, it really amazing how the discovery of Science Today support the TRUTH of the Bible written many centuries ago -- the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) producing GIANT offsprings - Mighty Men of old, men renown - AFTER their union with the Daughters of Men (human), as documented in Genesis 6!!!

This, of course, means that Macro is a Lie and God's Holy Word is the Truth. We did not Evolve our Human Intelligence. We inherited it from Adam, exactly as God told us we did.

Evols, list down your evidence here..

Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ReverendDG, posted 12-20-2006 7:06 PM 4Pillars has responded
 Message 49 by Percy, posted 12-20-2006 9:03 PM 4Pillars has not yet responded
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 2185 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 43 of 114 (371246)
12-20-2006 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by 4Pillars
12-20-2006 6:46 PM


Re: Micro-evolution of Prehistoric Mankind & Human
Microevolution or descent with modification happens every time a baby is born. It is God's way of keeping "kinds" within their own "kinds". Micro assures that dogs remain dogs... cats, remain cats...they evolve or change...but within their own "kind".

yes that is what we call them, were they cats millions of years ago? no they would be something else, a different species, what we call cats are not the same as they were millions of years ago

Example: Cat's Family - A Lion (male) and a Tiger (female) producing a Giant "LIGER". See link (scroll all the way down).

yes and so what? they arn't natural, they can barely mate with each other as it is, only forced by man or captivity

its basicly unatural

See, it really amazing how the discovery of Science Today support the TRUTH of the Bible written many centuries ago -- the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) producing GIANT offsprings - Mighty Men of old, men renown - AFTER their union with the Daughters of Men (human), as documented in Genesis 6!!!

oh yes, make something up instead of reading what the text says, it says the sons of god, the angels had offspring with humans making giants
they were giants because of thier fathers not from some prehistoric man

This, of course, means that Macro is a Lie and God's Holy Word is the Truth. We did not Evolve our Human Intelligence. We inherited it from Adam, exactly as God told us we did.

i think everything you just said was a distorted misunderstanding of both the bible and science, nothing you posted shows evolution to be a lie
This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by 4Pillars, posted 12-20-2006 6:46 PM 4Pillars has responded

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4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 114 (371250)
12-20-2006 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ReverendDG
12-20-2006 7:06 PM


Re: Micro-evolution of Prehistoric Mankind & Human
Dear DG,

Genesis 6 does not say that the sons of God were angels. Angels are ministering spirits -- without flesh and bone -- and could not possibly mate with humans, so much so producing giant offsprings. Ridiculous, isn't it?

No wonder Evols get it wrong all the time. Their theory is based on wild imaginations and speculation.

Next Please...


This message is a reply to:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1805
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 45 of 114 (371252)
12-20-2006 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by 4Pillars
12-20-2006 7:18 PM


Re: Micro-evolution of Prehistoric Mankind & Human
No wonder Evols get it wrong all the time. Their theory is based on wild imaginations and speculation

As opposed to the creationists' fairy tales?


Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
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