|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 2543 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Abiogenesis | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
delete
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5530 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Nothing more than the fact that a gene is a linear digital code that is encrypted on one nucleic acid and translated by another.
But this is not true. ”HM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Your posts continue to drag discussion to the level of extreme silliness.
You can take a 6 hour break to see if you can think through what you post.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kuresu Member (Idle past 2543 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
excuse me, but DNA isn't digital. that's the biggest flaw with your description of "Genetic encryption". DNA is physical, it's an analog method of storing information (crude analogy that it is).
now, if DNA was a CD or a hard drive you might have a point. The other flaw is that DNA is not encrypted by one nucleic acid and translated by another. You do know what nucleic acid is, right? And one last nitpick--how is something that is a double-helix, linear?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And one last nitpick--how is something that is a double-helix, linear? Linear because you read in a sequential order from the beginning to a stop, then on to the next segment, in one direction (for each strand). Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5530 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
kuresu, you said:
excuse me, but DNA isn't digital. that's the biggest flaw with your description of "Genetic encryption". DNA is physical, it's an analog method of storing information (crude analogy that it is).
Well, if you won't take my word for it, would you accept Richard Dawkins' words (River Out Of Eden, 1995, p. 19)?:
quote: Genes even use a digital "alphabet" to express themselves. All of that digital stuff had to evolve along with the chemical stuff to make abiogenesis happen. Otherwise, incipient biological life would have had no way of generational communication. ”HM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Why are you looking for the mechanism? This is where absolute morality comes into play. Honestly, why do you want to know? Because that is how knowledge is gained and ignorance is abated: don't you think it is moral to remove the veils of ignorance from ones eyes? Don't you think it is moral to learn new things? Why is everything you argue about reduced to some attack on absolute morality? Do you know the working definition of fanatic? Someone who won't change their mind and can't change the subject. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Doddy Member (Idle past 5940 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
excuse me, but DNA isn't digital. that's the biggest flaw with your description of "Genetic encryption". DNA is physical, it's an analog method of storing information (crude analogy that it is). That depends on your definition, I fear. Let me define what I think the two terms mean: Digital - storage of information in discrete 'bits'Analog - storage of information in a continuous form By those definitions, DNA is digital. However, most things we consider digital feature electronic or optical storage and numerically binary data. DNA does not, but I do no believe that prevents it from being labelled as digital rather than analog.
The other flaw is that DNA is not encrypted by one nucleic acid and translated by another. You do know what nucleic acid is, right? No, it is encrypted by evolution and translated by tRNA and ribosomes, which evolved along with the encryption. After all, if something can't encrypt its data accurately, or translate it again, it will die. So of course, encryption mechanisms can evolve. A good example of this is the change in the encryption in the mitochondria of vertebrates and some fungi, where the RNA codon AUA codes for the amino acid methionine, rather than isoleucine as it does in the cellular ribosomes of all other species (apart from the Micrococcus genus, where it is a stop codon). The genetic code is far from universal, and undergoes evolution because of mutations and selection just like everything else. If you're interested, see if you can pick up this classic paper (note the author!): F.H.C. Crick, "The origin of the genetic code." J. Mol. Biol. 38 (1968), pp. 367-379. Contributors needed in the following fields: Physical Anthropology, Invertebrate Biology (esp. Lepidopterology), Biochemistry, Population Genetics, Scientific Illustration, Scientific History, Philosophy of Science, Logic and others. Researchers also wanted to source creationist literature references. Register here!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
fallacycop Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
Just a little nitpick
is not the purpose of the strong nuclear force to hold electrons together?
electrons are not held by the strong force. They are held by the electromagnetic force. May be you meant quarks?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
fallacycop Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
excuse me, but DNA isn't digital. I`m afraid you`re not right about that one , as Doddy pointed out. But if you don`t mind me asking, What difference does that make?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kuresu Member (Idle past 2543 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
i had always thought of analog as being physical, whereas digital isn't in the same sense. apparently that's not quite right.
what makes DNA store info in discrete "bits"? is each "bit" like the code for a protein? as to the encryption thing, I understood hoot mon's argument a little differently. I took it that he meant that the DNA chain encrypted itself (so it would be like "A" encrypts "A", which to me seems really ridiculous). I forgot about tRNA though (as to being translated by other nucleic acids).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
fallacycop Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
what makes DNA store info in discrete "bits"? is each "bit" like the code for a protein? In the case of DNA you can take every base as a discrete unit. The word discrete means that there are a finite (countable) number of possibilities. Contrast, if you will, a CD with an LP. In a CD the music is encoded in sequence of zeros and ones. there are only two possibilities for every unit of information. that`s a countable number of possibilities, which makes the information content of CD`s discrete or Digital. LP`s(Venyl), on the other hand, have the music encoded into microscopic grooves that cannot be broken down into units with finite (countable) possibilities. That makes them analag. DNA, like CD`s, have their information encoded in discrete form. Every base has 4 possibilities -- a,c,t,g -- which is countable (Digital) I hope that helps
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kuresu Member (Idle past 2543 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
that did. thanks.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
fallacycop Member (Idle past 5551 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
However, most things we consider digital feature electronic or optical storage and numerically binary data. To be electronic or optical is a red hearing. Even analog TV`s are elctronic. Binary data sure is digital, but it is defnetly not the only possible choice for digital data.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Your example would be applicable If I were using a definition of information that is not in the context of Biology. Still spinning, eh? The definition you've cherrypicked and misread does not in any way say or imply that DNA "only exists for the purpose of communication." It does not. Whatever one's stance on evolution versus creationism, it doesn't have an intelligent recipient. DNA is not a message carrying meaning.
And btw... assuming I had been dishonest (which I was not)... is there anything wrong with dishonesty? Or is such moralizing useless convention and ultimately meaningless? Please don't reply to that, I am only making a point. You think you're making a point. The answers to your questions are "yes" and "no" respectively.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024