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Author Topic:   The Literal Genesis Account of Creation
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 276 of 316 (406797)
06-22-2007 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Psalm148
06-22-2007 12:34 PM


Re: Re-Genesis 1:1 and 1:6-8
What kind of fool would write Genesis 1, and then write a seemingly contradiction in Gen.2? There has to be a reason. Either the person who was writing had drunk one too many ales, or the two accounts actually agree.
Actually, you have the order wrong.
The story in Genesis 1 is actually the younger of the two tales. The Genesis 2 tales are combinations of much older stories.
The question though of "why did the redactors of the Bible include two mutually exclusive and contradictory stories of Creation" is a great one.
as I pointed out back in Message 224 in this thread, and many other times at EvC, we really do need to understand just why the redactors (and Moshe, even if he did exist did not write the "Books of Moses") include both tales?
There are several reasons. One is that the two tales show the evolution of the concept of God by the Hebrews. The earlier God found in Genesis 2 and later is very much like other Gods of the period. It is a personal God, very human, approachable, somewhat bumbling, very anthropomorphic. It is definitely God made in man's image.
The God found in Genesis 1 though is quite different. Here we find a supremely confident, assured God, one that creates by an act of will alone, that moves methodically, step by step through the acts of creation.
But that God is also transcendent, aloof and separate from that which is created.
So why did they include the two stories?
We will never know the exact reasons but based on what is included in the rest of the Tanakh, custom likely played a part. Remember, these are the tales that defined a peoples and so including folk tales was an essential part.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Psalm148, posted 06-22-2007 12:34 PM Psalm148 has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 282 of 316 (406878)
06-22-2007 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by pbee
06-22-2007 7:29 PM


More jabberwocky.
I would say nice try if there was any possible way to connect all that jabberwocky with what is actually in Genesis 1:2.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
In this case we are definitely not talking about a desert, desert-like or most particularly, arid. Let me point out a word that actually is in Genesis 1:2, it is "waters".
Do any of you actually READ the Bible?
Again, look at what you present.
You claim "Thus both the etymological history and contextual usage of the phrase fail to support the view of an unorganized universe. ", yet even the very sources you quote imply just that.
Nudder question.
Do any of you actually READ what you write?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by pbee, posted 06-22-2007 7:29 PM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 291 of 316 (406931)
06-23-2007 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by ICANT
06-23-2007 12:09 AM


Re: Re-Genesis 1:1 and 1:6-8
If there was no land visible because it was covered with water would that not mean it was formless.
There was no land anywhere only water.
There has NEVER been a time on Earth when it was totally covered by water. In fact, water was a fairly latecomer to the Earth, millions and millions of years after land.
There was nothing showing but water.
God gathered the water together in one place.
Dry land appeared in one place.
Geology : Plate Tectonics prove this statement.
Nonsense. A totally false statement. Land, dry land was all of the Earth long before any water could even exist on Earth.
Stop just spouting nonsense.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2007 12:09 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2007 12:57 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 300 of 316 (406998)
06-23-2007 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by ICANT
06-23-2007 12:57 AM


Re: Re-Genesis 1:1 and 1:6-8
Then you are asserting that the planet earth existed long before Genesis 1:2 which says is was formless and void.
No, I am saying that the Genesis creation myths are factually wrong.
How many times must I repeat that?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2007 12:57 AM ICANT has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 306 of 316 (407058)
06-23-2007 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by ICANT
06-23-2007 9:23 PM


Re: Rei -6th day
You still miss the point.
The first half of Genesis 2:4 is the ending summary of the younger tale that begins at Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 1:1 through the first half of Genesis 2:4 is one story.
Another story starts at the second half of Genesis 2:4.
The tale that begins at the second half of genesis 2:4 is the older tale. It is a compilation of several myths that likely began as an oral tradition.
The story that begins at Genesis 1:1 and runs through the first half of Genesis 2:4 is the newer, younger tale. It was written by different people with different traditions many hundreds if not thousands of years after the older tale that starts at the second half of Genesis 2:4.
Other than both tales being creation myths, there is NOTHING common between them.
Just as Genesis 1:1 is the introduction, the first half of Genesis 2:4 is the summation of the story.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2007 9:23 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2007 11:51 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 312 of 316 (407080)
06-24-2007 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by ICANT
06-23-2007 11:51 PM


On myths.
Gene 2:4 (KJV) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created,
You say this half of the verse goes with Gen. 1:1-Genesis 2:3.
Yup.
Why is this the only instance where all the things of the generations come before the statement "These are the generations of..?
Because it is the summary of what came before.
Why is the generations given in Genesis 5:1 the generations of the man created on day 6, if they have already been given.
They aren't. There is no connections between the story in Genesis one and the earlier stories.
Then, where would the generations of the man formed from the dust of the earth be?
You're mixing up stories again. In the tale found in Genesis 1 through the first half of Genesis 2:4, man is not made from dust but from an act of will?
quote:
Genesis 1:26-27
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
If it is only a myth you should be able to objectively look at what is written and come to an honest conclusion.
I do. They are simply different myths, both factually wrong.
The aim of the thread: The Literal Genesis Account of Creation in the KJV Bible. No more, No less.
Well, sorry but that is exactly what you have been getting from me. There is literally not one tale, but two or more, and they are all factually wrong.
Sorry, that is the literal truth.
Have you ever read the Bible?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2007 11:51 PM ICANT has not replied

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