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Author Topic:   ramifications of omnipotence for God
tudwell
Member (Idle past 6009 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 4 of 224 (414501)
08-04-2007 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
08-04-2007 11:04 AM


sidelined writes:
Can God create all men with the capability of free will and obedience to him?
I've been thinking about this lately. If God is omnipotent, he can do anything and make anybody or anything do whatever he wishes. But God chose to give man free will and therefore limited himself in his power. He can no longer interfere with human affairs. If he were to do so, man would no longer have free will. Therefore God is not omnipotent - or if he is, we don't have free will.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sidelined, posted 08-04-2007 11:04 AM sidelined has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by anastasia, posted 08-05-2007 2:39 PM tudwell has replied

  
tudwell
Member (Idle past 6009 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 29 of 224 (414824)
08-06-2007 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by anastasia
08-05-2007 2:39 PM


anastasia writes:
Omnipotence means God can do anything. I don't see how God having the ability to create man with free will means that God can't create man with no free will. He already created plenty of things without it. Are you confusing omnipotence with being a control freak?
I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying that by giving man free will, God has decided to limit his power. Even if he wanted to interfere with man's affairs, he couldn't, because the second he does, man doesn't have free will. He's not omnipotent anymore if man has free will.
I think where this line of reasoning might fail is one could say God chose to give man free will. He still has the ability to intervene, he just chooses not to. I don't know, it was just random musing on my part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by anastasia, posted 08-05-2007 2:39 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by anastasia, posted 08-06-2007 3:49 PM tudwell has not replied
 Message 35 by ICANT, posted 08-06-2007 9:51 PM tudwell has not replied
 Message 41 by ikabod, posted 08-07-2007 5:23 AM tudwell has not replied

  
tudwell
Member (Idle past 6009 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 30 of 224 (414828)
08-06-2007 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by pbee
08-05-2007 3:29 PM


pbee writes:
Either they are free or not. If God created humans in such a way that they could not sin, then they could never claim absolute freedom.
I don't see why. There's lots of things humans can't do. We can't fly, breathe underwater, travel through time, et alia. Sure, we might have free will, but there are limits. If God didn't want us sinning, he could have made us without the capability of sin. There would still be lots of other things to do and to choose to do, just not sin. We would still have free will, just one more constraint on what we as humans can physically accomplish.

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 Message 11 by pbee, posted 08-05-2007 3:29 PM pbee has not replied

  
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