Poor Satan, so misunderstood.

Why is the law of God not mentioned in Genesis?Why did God not spend considerable time to teach Adam how to obey the law of God?Why was there not a contrast between the forbidden tree and the law?

If you are speaking of God Himself curing the man through His salvation, I agree.If you are talking about man himself being able to cure the condition of his heart according to God's (not man's) standard, I cannot agree.We need the salvation of a new birth and a new heart because
God has declared: Did you see that? God declares the human heart "incurable".Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Ringo writes: Since Ringo wants to ignore that the Bible is one revelation Ringo is ignorant of the fact that it is Satan operating in man that has made him corrupt: The RULER of the authority of the air is an evil spirit, the devil who is "operating IN the sons of disobedience". Satan is the evil spirit and ruler operating in fallen man.Of course Ringo is likely to want to separate the New Testament away frm the Old Testament as far as possible. He is likely to chime in "Oh that has NOTHING to do with Genesis."sigh ... Regardless of this bogus and illegitimate excuse, even the Solomon in the Old Testament speaking by the Spirit of God tells us virtually the same thing as what Jeremiah wrote about the heart of man: The assessment of the wise man Solomon is that no one does good and does not sin. Here again is not the New Testament speaking. But the Old Testament telling us that everyone covets, is jealous of his neighber and therefore has broken the 10th commandment of God - "You shall not covet."Then Solomon tell us that man was not created this way, but somehow has sought out deceitful ways: Of course now. God created man and pronounced that everything He made was "very good" (Gen.1:31). Things went wrong from the time Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.The man made upright then became deceitful and sought out many schemes. Just because Ringo doesn't WANT to listen to the New Testament prophets that it is the evil spirit operating in man, doesn't make it not relevant or not true. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : Evil spirit not Spirit and other dreadful typos.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Correction:Ecclesiastes 7:20

No we shouldn't blame some evil spook. We should believe what the word of God has to teach us. And we should believe the Bible WITHOUT preference or prejudice and not caring about the mocking of people.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

TestingEdited by jaywill, : Changed my mind.

To the Satan Concealment Crew:Question for the zealots on this forum who are eager always to say "THERE'S NOOOOOO Satan in the Old Testament !!"Okay, how did the serpent have this inside story about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Man was created to have dominion over all the creatures of the earth. How can man have dominion over the serpent if the serpent is smarter about what is going on than man?Where did the serpent get this information that Adam would become like God knowing good and evil? It sounds like the serpent had some previous experience with these things.What kind of snake is this? He has the "inside story" on such divine and eternal matters. Where did he get this knowledge?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

EVERYTHING ... is NOT blamed on God's evil enemy. Obviously, EVERYTHING is not blamed on the Devil.But how would you know? You open the Bible and don't see anything in its pages except your own beef against disciples of Jesus.What is blamed on the Devil is what is blamed on the Devil. What is our responsibility is what is our responsibility. Its right there in the book.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I mean in chapter 3 of Genesis.Why contrasted against the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was there not simply the tablets of the law of God?With the importance you place on the law (and I also believe it is important) why was it not mentioned as Adam's fundamental instructions? Do you mean that there was no trangression with Adam?Was he punished by expulsion from the garden because of transgression or not? The command not to eat DOES NOT cover the tree of life.You better go read again carefully: Adam was permitted to eat of "every tree" ... except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why then do you try to spread the prohibition over the tree of life?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Thankyou. But you did not yet address the prohibition.If it did not cover the tree of life I think you should adjust your previous statement that it did.Or else explain how the prohibition extended over the tree of life.Thankyou.

In the Bible there is the law in letters. But there is a higher law which is the law of life.The peach tree yields peaches. It does not have to be commanded to do so. It has a life which has a peach producing nature. It has a peach growing law in its life. In fact every life has within it a law which is the law of that life.God has a life. And with His life there is the law of His life. God has a way of dispensing His life into man. This is extraordinary. And we may have no exact parellel of it in the natural world. The closest thing may be the relationship of a parent to a begotten child. The life of the parent is practically dispensed into the offspring of that parent.The tree of life signifies the dispensing of God's life into man. Then the law of life, the law of the divine life of God would have been imparted into man's very good created life to make man one with God.Some people think that the tree of life was simply the power of an everlasting human life. However the prohibition was not one for man to never cease eating from the tree of life. God did not say:"Here is the tree of life. As long as you eat of it you will not die."The only thing we are told would cause man to die is his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I submit then that from creation Adam already had an everlasting human life. What then could be the purpose of a tree of life in the midst of the garden?The tree of life was symbol of God's divine life. It was not forced upon man. It was Adam's option to eat of it. We do not even see God command Adam to eat of the tree of lief. But it is there for his taking and it is central being in the middle of the garden.God wanted man of his free will to eat of this tree of life in order that the good man might become a God-man, a man with the life of God Himself mingled with his created human life.If this does not bring things into focus let me put it this way. God wanted a son of God. God wanted something more profound than an angel creature. He wanted a son, a created man, who nonetheless was of one life and nature with God Himself. He wanted a man like Jesus Christ. Put another way - Jesus Christ is what God intended by the creation of "Human Being." Jesus Christ is what God meant by Man.God wanted a God man. He still wants a God man. Then the law of life spontaneously produces the expression of God within a man. The divine attributes of God are then expressed within the human virtues of the created man. God wants to live in man and to live out from man. And God wants man to live in the sphere and realm of God.The law of letters, the law of God cut in tablets of stone is one matter. But the law of life is the higher law which imparts into man the spontaneous outflow of the expression of the righteousness, holiness, and glory of God.Once man ete of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he began to die. The tree of life is more powerful than death and was able to preserve this sinful man for eternity. But God would not have that. He would not be joined to sin in any way. He cannot dwell where there is sin. So the way to the tree of life was cut off after man's fall. The New Testament apostle Paul tells us that fallen man is "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18)From this expulsion from Eden's garden with the angelic guard placed to protect the tree of life, the human race has been "alienated from the life of God". Therefore man has been alienated from the law of life. Man has been estranged from the law of the life of God which he was intended to have mingled into his own good created life.

If you read it carefully the devil, is called Satan there." ... the great dragon was cast down, the ancient serpent, he who is called the Devil and Satan ..." (Rev. 12:9)You see? I have imposed nothing. The ancient serpent is called the Devil and Satan. That means Devil is one name for the ancient serpent. And Satan is another name for the ancient serpent.Furthermore the similarity between the scene in Revelation 12 with the woman, her manchild, and a hostile dragon is reflective of the Genesis scene of a woman Eve, a serpent who is at enmity with her and her child, and a promised seed of the woman. It is perculiar, However we see it again a couple of more times in Genesis. God appears to Abraham with two angels and has lunch with him before taking care of Sodom.I think that the one walking in the garden in the cool of the day to meet Adam was probably Christ in His pre-incarnated state. That is true. I think the point in Balaam's exprience was he was so obsessed with material gain that he overlooked the obvious. But I have to think about it some more.In Adam's case it could be that there was some communication between man and some of the animals. Whether that was in human language I do not know.There are many things about the early creation that I do not understand at this time. If you don't want to believe that the serpent has anything to do with Satan the Devil go ahead and believe that.It is enough for me that "the ancient serpent,he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole inhabited earth" (Rev.12:9) is the crystal clear indication that the serpent, who in fact deceived the whole world, was connected to Satan. Adam was not a toddler. You don't give names to all the animals and not have some smarts.But since the activity of Satan is to accuse God, Its curious that you want to both conceal his identity and at the same time accuse God for the fall of man. So Satan is concealed. God is at fault. And God lied.Who do you work for ? I think below this there's probably not much else I could learn from or want to respond to.

I agree that the Devil is not mentioned by that name in the first five books of Moses. I have no argument about that. However, I do not believe that that means the activity of God's most powerful enemy is not mentioned.I could also say that there is no mention of the law in Genesis. You see, however, some things arguably related to the divine law of God. I am saying there are unquestionably some things related to God's enemy Satan and the Devil in Genesis. I think I agree with you to some extent. And here is how - At first Adam was directly ruled by God's instructions. At the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil his human conscience was activated. Because He is created in the image of God there is something of God's character in Adam with which his conscience agrees.So Adam fell from direct rule of God to the rule of the created conscience. Latter we will see in Genesis that human government was iinstituted after the flood. The reason from this is because God had to institute a system in which those who listen to conscience govern over those who do not listen to conscience.So was a step from rule of the direct command of God,
to rule of conscience,
to rule of human government in case all do not listen to human conscience.Higher and greater than all of these states is the state of man having the life of God dispensed into him. This is the peak of all human existence - for man to partake of the tree of life. This is higher than receiving command of God. This is an "organic" union and oneness with God in life and nature.The highest possible state of man was not coerced upon man. It was provided to man's freedom to choose. And that is to partake of the tree of life.The man of life, that is of the divine life, is a God-man. He is God and man incorporated together. Adam ignored this highest state and fell into union with God's enemy.Now some object that I read too much Pauline theology into Genesis. But consider the next thing that the writer mentions after the fall of Adam. It is the murder of Abel by Cain. And in that story it is clear that SIN has flooded into the heart of man and man must master this foriegn force.God tells Cain: Moses, writes of sin as if it is a living, creeping, opportunistic enemy - crouching, ready to devour its prey.Compare this with Paul's exposition the sin nature in Romans 6 through 8, especially chapter 7. In Paul's letter sin is a personified evil force that operated (v.5), bears fruit (v.5), seizes opportunity (v.8), worked out coveting (v.8), revieved (v.9), again seized opportunity and deceived (v.11), killed (v.11),works out death and becomes exceedingly sinful (v.13), forces man to practice what he hates (v.15), prevents man from doing the good he desires to do (v.18), drives man to go against what he delights in (v.16), dwells in the sinner's members (v.17,20), is a an evil law in the members of the sinner's body (v.21,23), is a evil evil law stronger than man's good mind (v.23), makes man a captive (v.23), gives man a sense of self wretchedness (v.24).Now go back to Genesis You see practically the same thing as you see in Romans 7. SIN is a evil, crouching, foe of God and man lurking at the door of man's heart, waiting for the right moment to drive man into rebellious and evil behavior.So some of us take it completely relevant that the New Testament apostle enlightens us of the state of man from his fall and of the nature of salvation in Christ. I have not spoken much about the salvation in this post.Compare again the crouching sin in Genesis and the indwelling sin of Romans 7 with this passage about the evil spirit operating in fallen man: We need Paul's New Testament revelation to get the most wisdom from the book of Genesis appropriate to this present stage of God's salvation for man. That is an interesting thought. I have thought of it in the years I have been studying this Bible. But I will not speak to it in this post, except to say that I believe that the "Us" refers to the Triune God - the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Maybe we can discuss that in another exchange.My concern is not how Genesis chapter 3 spoke to the Jews thousands of years ago who perhaps were in the days of Hezekiah. And it is not a matter of Christians saying that their level of understanding of Genesis was wrong. What the Spirit of God impressed upon them was appropriate to the stage of the outworking of God's economy.What I expound I believe is God's deeper enlightenment through the New Testament of the mysteries of Genesis. And they are appropriate to this stage of God's progressive unfolding of His eternal purpose.What we see does not render the previous light wrong. But today's revelation through the lense of the NT it is deeper. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

testing 1,2,3.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

In Genesis 1:26,27 we read: Could "Us" include the serpent ? In Deuteronmoy Moses warned the Israelites not to make an image of God that resembled any animal: The flying, walking, or crawling serpent is OUT as far as being any way associated with the divine "Us" and "Our image".But IamJoseph's thought still needs consideration. He says that the "Us" refers to spiritual beings. If that is the case then we have a spiritual being who has changed in likeness and image to become a serpent. Spiritually then, IamJoseph implies, some glorious and holy being is one of the divine "Us" in the past but is presently in the form of a serpent.This seems to bring us closer to pre-Adamic cherub or angelic being who is now apparently very much opposed to God's words and God's plans. But some still don't want to refer to such a being as Satan, the Devil because he is not specifically called that in Genesis. But who can deny that the function of such a Slanderer and Advsary is pracrically being acted out in the serpent?This interpretation brings us closer to the serpent being the Devil rather than farther away.But there is another problem. Could there be ANY reference ANYWHERE in the rest of the Bible that angels, other gods, cherubims, etc. assisted God in the creating of anything? Remember that God said - "Let Us make make man ..." but verse 27 does not say "So They created man in Their own image". Rather it says "And God created man in His own image ..."God makes a point of telling us that He alone is responsible for creation work: From these passages we see that God alone and no other gods are responsible for the heavens and the earth. But what about the creation of man? It does say in Genesis "Let Us make man in Our Image, according to Our likeness ..."I will leave off pondering this problem further until another post. But I would say this. In an attempt to remove and ancient powerful being who is Satan the Devil from Genesis, I think that IamJoseph has unwittingly brought us closer to such a concept.It should be clear that any spiritual being who is part of the divine "Us" in some sense is:1.) Changed in form or appearance
2.) In opposition against the plan of God
3.) In direct rebellion to the command of God
5.) Twisting the words of God
6.) Lying concerning the truth of God
7.) Judged by God
8.) Cursed by God
9.) Responsible for the trend of the human race away from God's Paradise
10.) Main instigator in the necesssity for God to have to judge man.What "spiritual" being in all the Bible best fits this discription?For those without a clue, consider Revelation 12:9: Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.