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Author Topic:   Poor Satan, so misunderstood.
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 256 of 301 (448728)
01-15-2008 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by ringo
01-14-2008 11:18 PM


Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
If Jesus was sin-free,
Quick question.
Are you saying Jesus committed sin?
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by ringo, posted 01-14-2008 11:18 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 1:33 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 266 of 301 (448848)
01-15-2008 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by ringo
01-15-2008 1:33 AM


Re-Competely Human
Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
I'm saying He wouldn't have been completely human if He didn't.
Good observation, so I have to agree with you.
But he was not completely human.
Jesus was God in a flesh body just like you and I have.
To be exactly like you are, completely human as you refer to He would have to have been of the seed of Joseph which He was not.
That was the reason for the virgin birth of Jesus.
Jesus to be a perfect sacrifice for the sins of man could have no sin in him. So He had to be placed in Mary's womb in the first artificial insemination project every carried out, which was performed by the Holy Spirit.
You have always come over to me as one who believes we are a sinner because of the deeds we do.
That is wrong. We do the things we do because we are a sinner. We inherit a sin nature from the first man and woman that was on the earth.
Enjoy,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 1:33 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 2:05 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 268 of 301 (448864)
01-15-2008 2:50 PM


Re-Whatever
Hi Guys and Gals,
Let me dive into this discussion. I am not going to offer a lot of scripture proofs for anything as it would take too much time in the beginning and many don't believe the Bible anyway.
I am going to make a statement of how I understand the things that is being discussed here. Specific questions can be asked later and those interested in scriptures can ask for them.
Jesus was God in the flesh. He was not the descendent of the first man on earth and was not therefore under the penalty of sin that was passed up that man and all his descendants. Thus He was not born a sinner.
Satan, Devil, or whatever name you call him is not a personification.
He is a real spiritual being and can appear in any form he choses. He could appear as the most beautiful woman that you have ever seen. He could appear as the most handsome man you have ever seen or anything else he desired to deceive mankind.
There was three arch angels Satan was known as the Son of the Morning. His domain was the earth that is what he was to care for.
He decided one day he was as good as God and would exalt himself and his angels to be equal with God. God cast Satan out of Heaven. Every since that time there has been a war being waged over the earth. That is the reason Jesus had to come and die on the cross and redeem the world and its inhabitants.
Satan's dominion did not change he was still over the earth. That dominion will end when he is finally cast into the lake of fire after the final time he tries to destroy Jerusalem.
When Satan took Jesus up on the mountain which Ringo says there is not one high enough. Sorry to disappoint Ringo but they could have been in a valley and it would not have made any difference all satan had to do was point around where he stood.
The entire earth is the dominion, kingdom of satan at the present, he is the prince and power of the air, satan does as he pleases on earth unless God intervenes and stops him. Sorry if I disappoint all you God bashers out there. You like to blame God for all the problems on earth. When you should blame the power that is in charge and that is satan. Don't get me wrong God could intervene and put a stop to it. That will happen the time has already been appointed but until that time, time goes on.
Satan knows the scriptures and he was offering Jesus a shortcut to the kingdom on earth promised to David of which there would be no end.
Did satan have the power, or authority to make this offer? Sure he did it was his kingdom then as it is today.
Now if Jesus had accepted the offer of satan He would not have had to go to the cross and suffer separation from God the Father for the space of 3 hours.
The kingdom would have been Jesus' to do with as He pleased the only problem is He would have to have exalted satan above God the Father and worshiped satan.
Be not deceived satan is real. He can kill you, he can give you your hearts desire here on earth. All you have to do is follow him. He knows his destination and he would like to have your company because if you are with him that is one that God does not have. He can say I won that battle.
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 3:00 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 270 of 301 (448871)
01-15-2008 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by ringo
01-15-2008 2:05 PM


Re: Re-Competely Human
Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
Inheriting a sin nature" is utterly irrelevant.
You want to talk about spiritual thing or evolutionary things?
I will tell you what God says and you will say no that is not right I believe this or that. You are entitled to your beliefs. You have a problem with me in evolutionary threads and that is because I do not understand evolution as perceived by many. I am sure here we will have many problems because you do not understand spiritual things.
You almost busted my ear drums with that scream you just let out but believe me spiritual things are spiritually discerned. God said so.
1Cor 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Before you can understand spiritual things you must believe in God.
Not only do you have to believe in Him you have to believe Him.
At that point you are beginning on the road to understanding spiritual things.
Have fun now,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 2:05 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by sidelined, posted 01-15-2008 3:22 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 272 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 3:35 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 273 of 301 (448888)
01-15-2008 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by ringo
01-15-2008 3:00 PM


Re: Re-Whatever
Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
We all know the dogma.
No we all don't know the dogma.
The point of the thread is to point out that the dogma is wrong.
In the OP Greatest I Am says many things then asks a question.
I see nowhere that the point was to show the dogma wrong. I do see that He wants to know should we do a specific thing.
Message 1
Greatest I Am writes:
Should we love Satan?
I don't know how others would answer that question.
I know my answer and my answer is yes.
I am supposed to love everybody. Now satan is not a human but he is very special and held a very special office. Now if satan had not tried to exalt himself above God there would have never been a me.
If satan had not convinced Eve to eat the fruit there would never have been a me.
If satan had never tempted Jesus I would never have had an opportunity to go to be with Jesus.
Satan made his decision and he must pay the penalty.
But I have to thank him for what he did for me.
Satan get accused of a lot of things. The devil made me do it type stuff.
But in reality satan only secured you an opportunity to choose.
Have fun now,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 3:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 3:54 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 274 of 301 (448892)
01-15-2008 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by sidelined
01-15-2008 3:22 PM


Re: Re-Competely Human
Hi sidelined,
sidelined writes:
Where did God say that? In the bible? The bible was written by men and men cannot be trusted so how do determine the veracity of your claim for God sir?
Hopefuly now you can understand my flustration at many evolutionist claims when they only have some man's word for it. Or have to answer with "we don't know".
If you do not believe the Bible to be the Word of God I cannot convince you of anything spiritual.
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by sidelined, posted 01-15-2008 3:22 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by sidelined, posted 01-15-2008 6:44 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 276 of 301 (448900)
01-15-2008 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by ringo
01-15-2008 3:54 PM


Re: Re-Whatever
Ringo writes:
God gave us the oppurtunity to choose long before "Satan" came on the scene.
I would love to be enlightened on this point.
Like when, where, and even, when did satan come on the scene?

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 3:54 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 4:40 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 281 of 301 (448910)
01-15-2008 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by ringo
01-15-2008 3:54 PM


Re: Re-Whatever
Hi Ringo,
ICANT writes:
I see nowhere that the point was to show the dogma wrong.
Ringo writes:
Read the rest of the thread. Greatest I Am makes it clearer what his intent was.
I took your adivce and went back and read what Greatest I Am had to say in his 15 posts:
Message 1
Message 6
Message 7
Message 22
Message 23
Message 26
Message 38
Message 39
Message 40
Message 63
Message 64
Message 193
Message 203
Message 235
Message 236
Greatest I Am has a belief that God created everything perfect.
The universe, satan, man, animals everything God created was perfect.
It is still perfect and always will be perfect. It makes no difference what others talk about he stays his course you do not deter him from his talk points.
I do not see where he is trying to prove any dogma wrong only that his perfect world is right.
I admire him for his patience and preservence

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 3:54 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 5:44 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 283 of 301 (448920)
01-15-2008 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by ringo
01-15-2008 4:40 PM


Re: Re-Whatever
Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
To think that there is one villain encompassed by every story in the Bible, with one back-story and one purpose, is the profound misunderstanding that this whole thread is about. Read it and begin your enlightenment.
I thought maybe you could enlighten me but oh well I will just have to take God's Word for it.
If I remember correctly when Lucifer which is sometimes refered to
as devil, dragon or satan was fallen he carried a third part of the angels with him. So yes there is a bunch of little fellows running around out there. On the other hand they not so little they are a lot more powerful than you are.
Isai 14:12 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isaiah tell us why he fell.
Reve 12:7 (KJV) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
John tells us how and how many fell.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 4:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 5:53 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 288 of 301 (448953)
01-15-2008 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by ringo
01-15-2008 5:44 PM


Re-Dogma
Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
Looks to me like he's trying to overturn dogma.
No I read all those and all I see is Greatest I Am saying I am right these things do not exist and all you people are wrong.
My perfect world is the correct view.
You may view what he said differently. I don't take a sentence and try to define what someone is saying I try to take everything they say into consideration before I try to figure out what they are trying to prove or disprove.
Like in Message 39 where you pointed out:
quote:
To think that Jesus took over our responsibility for sin and forgave them all is false. Message 39
He said in his last sentence:
quote:
There are many roads to Heaven if God maintains His ability to create Perfect souls.
Nothing matters if God creates Perfect souls which He does is what I get.
But you are welcome to read his posts and understand them anyway you desire too that is life.
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 5:44 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by ringo, posted 01-15-2008 6:55 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 292 of 301 (448972)
01-15-2008 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by sidelined
01-15-2008 6:44 PM


Re: Re-Competely Human
Hi sidelined,
sidelined writes:
That is indeed a dilemma that you must face.
Why is that a dilemma I must face. It has absolutly nothing to do with my future.
sidelined writes:
I think that if something cannot convince me on its own merits without me first adopting a credulous, unquestioning stance then I must apologize for being so skeptical.
Sidelined I have been preaching for 45 years and I have never convinced anyone of anything. I do not try to convince people because if I convince them they are converted to me.
I do like a lot of people here say they do.
I state the facts as I know them, I present my evidence for my beliefs. If someone looks at that and is convinced thereby that is fine. If they come to a different conclusion than I did that is fine.
Just remember that our conclusions and the choices they produce determine our future.
If you have read the Bible from cover to cover and come to the conclusion it is a lie so be it.
If you have read something somebody wrote and come to that conclusion that is fine also.
If you have never read it or seen one and have come to the conclusion it is a lie that is fine also.
Just don't expect me to come to the same conclusion.
Now if my theory is correct you and I will be judged out of the things written in that book the Bible. This may create a problem because our ancestors may not have given us the entire truth.
When I say that book the Bible I am talking about the words God spoke and inspired the orginal writers to write down. Not necessarly everything we have today. There has been a lot of humans involved in the books that are called Bibles today.
So you see I may believe a lie and end up in Hell because my ancestors failed to do their job properly.
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by sidelined, posted 01-15-2008 6:44 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by pelican, posted 01-15-2008 11:50 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 295 by sidelined, posted 01-16-2008 10:33 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 296 of 301 (449087)
01-16-2008 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by sidelined
01-16-2008 10:33 AM


Re: Re-Competely Human
Hi sidelined,
sidelined writes:
I have witnessed that the bible does not change people in any real way
I don't know what you mean by any real way.
But I do not doubt your word.
I have seen drunkards who got drunk on the way home on Friday night spending most of the pay check if not all of it at the bar, Who then went home and beat the wife and kids for no reason upon meeting my friend Jesus do a 180 degree turn.
Become a sober productive citizen. Who loved their wives and kids and never returned to the old way.
I have seen drug addicts do the same.
I have seen families being torn apart meet my friend Jesus and be able not only to survive but to have abundant life here on earth.
I could go on and on with the changes I have seen in people in the last 50 years all because of my friend Jesus.
Without God and Jesus in these peoples lives where would they be today?
Maybe I am wrong, maybe there is no God but if I knew for a fact God did not exist and I could go back and do it all over again I would not change a thing.
Look at how much happiness and joy I was able to see because people chose to believe in God and His Son.
Have fun,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by sidelined, posted 01-16-2008 10:33 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by sidelined, posted 01-16-2008 4:15 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 299 of 301 (449169)
01-16-2008 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by sidelined
01-16-2008 4:15 PM


Re: Re-Competely Human
Hi sidelined,
sidelined writes:
I have also seen people get off of drugs and drink and abuse give it up without needing Jesus or any other faith based support as well.
Yes sidelined I have seen many of those also. I also know that the success rate of those that never go back is around 30%.
With the ones I know it is 100% success rate, never take one drop of strong drink, not one fix, never raise the hand to strike the wife again.
The volume has been low but the success rate has been perfect.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by sidelined, posted 01-16-2008 4:15 PM sidelined has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by arachnophilia, posted 01-17-2008 2:57 AM ICANT has not replied

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