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Author | Topic: 20 years of the Creation/ID science curriculum | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Catholic Scientist writes: Did you run OCR software? 'Cause these are the kinds of typos I see when I run it..... Modulous was quoting the Wedge Document from the Discovery Institute, which they never put online at their own website. Someone somewhere got a copy of it and scanned it in, and that's the version that appears at many websites. Modulous was cut-n-pasting from one of these websites. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
I think Jazzns is aware that Dover is off-topic, because he said in the very message you replied to:
Jazzns writes: I'll either bump or start a thread where you can answer questions specific to your knowledge of Dover. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Jazzns writes: It might be nice if you could "slip into admin mode" to rule on weather my line of questioning that USES dover as an example to address the OP as topic. I don't think it takes a moderator to see that taking the plans Dover was putting in place and projecting them forward in time has got to be one of the most valuable ways to see what things might be like in 20 years. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so maybe someone has mentioned this already, but I wonder if a curriculum that included creationism/ID might cause science-minded parents to begin abandoning the public school system, switching to home schooling and to private schools with quality science programs.
There's a related aspect to this. Creationism/ID would have to overcome a number of court challenges before becoming part of the curriculum, and these challenges would likely continue long afterward. Such an outcome would likely mean a dramatic reinterpretation of the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state, and this would likely have wide-ranging ramifications beyond school systems. The 10 commandments would be permitted in courthouses, as would creche displays on public property. Bible study classes might become part of school curriculums. The religious conservative assertion that we are a Christian nation would have become a reality. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Hi Beretta,
You're right, the details of ID theory are not the topic of this thread, but I think at least an outline is appropriate in order to develop a better picture of what would be taught in a creation/ID curriculum. For instance, do you think that in 20 years ID advocates would still be saying that the designer and how he worked cannot be known? Will concepts like specified complexity and irreducible complexity have been given a scientific underpinning? Or will ID still be teaching that the wonder and complexity of nature is all the evidence needed to conclude design. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Fixed the link, that was precious!
The creationist admins Ray was dealing with were patient, rational and sought evidence. They'd be great members here anytime. CreationWiki's website doesn't seem to be working very well these days, I'm using the http://www.nwcreation.net/wiki/ link, maybe it's moved? --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
The interpretation of the 1st ammendment would be a great topic for a new thread.
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
It's being argued that if ID becomes accepted into the curriculum that other sciences of questionable legitimacy, such as astrology, would also. You seem to think that wouldn't happen, so I guess the question is what is it from the perspective of science that differentiates ID from astrology?
I think you already answered this question when you said in Message 204 that, "life clearly exhibits all the traits of things that only arise by intelligent design, and should therefore be classified as one of these things," but don't you need more than this? The appearance of design is sufficient for forming a hypothesis, but building a theory requires experiment, observation, analysis, replication and consensus building within the scientific community, something the field of ID has yet to do. The same is true of astrology. So if ID were to be added to the curriculum, it's being argued that astrology can fulfill any scientific criteria that ID does. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Hi Beretta,
This thread isn't about how wrong evolution is or how wonderful ID is, but about what public school science education might look like 20 years after ID is allowed into the classroom. That's why people are asking for some details about ID. After you finish saying, "The evidence matches the theory which is why it is infinitely more satisfying a theory," then what do you say in the rest of the lesson? --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Beretta writes: We all agree that saying that random change accounts for everything is wishful thinking and is not supported by evidence -in short it is a naturalistic belief system, not science. But science is, by definition at the present time, naturalistic. Is it your view that the acceptance of ID into the classroom would be accompanied by a fundamental change in the definition of science to include non-naturalistic explanations? --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Hi Beretta,
Once again, this thread is not about evolutionary theory's flaws. It's about ID in the classroom. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
No one from the ID side made any serious attempt to tackle the issues surrounding what America might be like in 20 years if ID were permitted into public school science classrooms. Conclude from that what you will.
--Percy
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