Divinity of Jesus

The man Jesus is God and God is the man Jesus.That is what I mean by the Divinity of Jesus.

IamJoseph,Maybe you would feel more at home at the Comparative Religions room or the Faith and Belief room.This is the Bible Study room. We attempt to talk about what the Bible really means here.Your comments seem more along the line of a discussion on Comparative Religions or Faith and Belief.Can you work your comments into the framework of "Bible Study"? Can you use the Bible to point out your concept as elaborated above ?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Who does "us" refer to in First Corinthians 8:6 - "Yet to us there is one God, the Father ... and one Lord Jesus Christ ...".If you have many gods which is the case:1.) You are not a part of this "us".2.) Paul is mistaken and the "us" has more than one God. In both cases John was overcome by the revelation, IMO, of the eventual victory the saints of God would have under Christ and against all the enemies of God.I think what overwhelmed John was the total vindication and victory of the church.Notice though that Christ did receive virtual worship on at least nine occasions in which no rebuke was given to the worshippers.1.) The healed leper worshipped Him (Matt. 8:2)
2.) The ruler knelt before Him with his petition (Matt. 9:18)
3.) After stilling the storm, the disciples worshipped Him (Matt. 14:33)
4.) The Canaanite woman bowed before Jesus in prayer (Matt. 15:25)
5.) So did the mother of the sons of Zebedee (Matt. 20:20)
6.) Just before His gospel commission "they worshipped Him" (Matt.28:17).
7.) The women who had just been at the tomb "took hold of His feet and worshipped Him" (Matt.28:9)
8.) The demoniac from Gerasenes saw him from afar, "he ran and worshipped Him" (Mark 5:6)
9.) The blind man whom Jesus healed said "Lord, I beleive; and he worshipped Him" (John 9:38) In the case of Thomas declaring that Jesus was His Lord and His God, Jesus even elicited worship from the disciples (John 20:28). He did not rebuke Thomas for this statement. Rather He declared that those who did not see but also beleived were blessed.I certainly intend to enjoy Jesus in worship. He is also my Lord and my God.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I don't see it that way at all. Similar in function does not mean that both the Daystar and the Logos were angels.The book of Hebrews makes it very clear that no angel can be compared to Christ, the Son of God, Who is also addressed as God Himself. The mention of the precious stones is more reminiscient of the New Jerusalem which is the sign of the living house of God. I mean the tabernacle of God in Revelation 21 and 22. But New Jerusalem stands for all the redeemed. They have become living stones built up into a spiritual house as the climax of God's salvation: The function of this anointed cherub then, more reminds us of the function of the corporate body of the saved in eternity future. This would explain satan's intense hatred for man and for God's redeemed people. For with them God gains superabundantly whatever loss was incurred with the rebellion of the anointed cherub.New Jerusalem, composed of 12 manner of precious stones is the house of God and the tabernacle of God. It is a sign of the people of God within whom God's life and nature have been fully dispensed transforming them, building them up to be the Lamb's corporate Bride and Wife. As well she is called that tabernacle of God meaning that God and man meet in her.I think you are missing the real tension and comparison in some regards.And you are using this passage to teach that the Son of God was an archangel which teaching I completely disagree with. Christ was not an archangel and was not a angelic brother of the anointed cherub.One of our proofs for this is the book of Hebrews. The question goes out "To which of the angels has He ever said, You are My Son; this day I have begotten You?" (Hebrews 1:5).The contrast between the Son of God and ANY angel is well established in Hebrews chapter one. And Christ cannot be compared to Gabriel or Michael or to the Daystar or to ANY angel."To which of the angels ...?" is to be answered "To NO angel at NO time" can we say the Son was like one of these angels. You err greatly by teaching that we should reply to the question posed by Hebrews 1:5 with "To Michael the angel, of course".This would be against the whole point of contrasting the Son of God to any and all angels as the writer does. Totally incorrect. Brothers here are overcomers who are victorious by the blood of the Lamb. This means that they are recipients of Christ's redemption. The good angels have never sinned and do not need the blood of Christ as the fallen human sinners do.Peg, you have been misled by Russell's false teaching.In Revelation 12 the plural pronoun "they" and "their" prove that the manchild is a corporate entity of overcoming believers. They are not angels. The angels who are ministering servants of the human believers do fight on behalf of thier salvation with the bad angels. But the overcomers are redeemed sinners who overcome the accuser of the brethern by the blood of the Lamb.Good angels may prevail against Satan and his angels. But they emphatically do not do so because of the blood of the Lamb. Christ did not shed His blood for sinless angels. The overcomers here is the collective MANCHILD. The angels are the ministering servants of the redeemed sinners [b]"sent forth for SERVICE for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation"(Hebrews 1:14). This explains of course why the good angels go and fight against the bad angels on behalf of the overcoming redeemed sinners.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

What the Word is may take us eternity to explore. The Word, the Logos may be too profound for me to fully discribe.John says in the same chapter that no one has ever seen God. And the only begotten Son has declared Him. I take Christ to be the explanation of God and the manifestation of God.I will tell you what the Word is not. The Word is not the archangel Michael.The relationship of the Word and God in the New Testament can be compared to that of the Angel of Jehovah and Jehovah in many places in the Old Testament. The two designations is interchangeably used.I do not pretend to be able to give an exhaustive definition of the Word any more than I could give one of God. But I am sure the Word is not another god and is not the angel Michael.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This morning I will only have time to write about these comments Peg: No, that is not what I meant when I refered to John 1:18 particularly, which says:"No one has ever seen God, the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." Here it is not a matter of Jesus being the only one who has seen God (though latter He states only He has seen the Father). Here in 1:18 it is rather that God has been declared through Christ.But Christ is not only God. Christ is God / Man. Christ is the mingling of divinity and humanity. For two or more things to be mingled means that they are combined in such a way that the components remain distinguishable in the combination.When you say that I have said " ... Jesus, who is God" I do not want you to think I mean Jesus is not also a man. Jesus is the mingling of God and man. God's eternal purpose is to mingle with man. Christ represents not only man's Redeemer and Savior but the beginning of God's operation to dispense His life and nature into man.In that sense He is "the beginning" in Colossian 1:18. The beginning of the deification of man is Christ. Though deified humans are never the object of worship as Christ is, they are nevertheless called His brothers. This matter of the Head of the Body, Christ being the beginning and the Firstborn is distinct from His being Firstborn of all creation in verse 15. And we can talk about that verses perhaps latter.But because Christ is to have first place in all things, He is FIRST in many regards and not just one. Here I focus on Him being the beginning of the creation which chiefly God mingled with humanity. And this "beginning" is also that beginning mentioned in Revelation 3:14: Colossians 1:18 and Revelation 3:14 are two verses describing Jesus Christ as the beginning of God's dispensing Himself into man to make a new creation of the mingling of God and man: Because Christ is God united with man, those who through His redemption and salvation, who are brought into Him are called the many brothers of the Firstborn Son of God. Christ is the beginning of this new creation of men mingled with God. Now back to John 1:18. This reality of God mingled with man is so striking to the Apostle John that he states a very bold thing. He claims that no one has ever seen God. How could he say this with all the appearances of God to the patriarchs and a few prophets in the Old Testament?John now tells his New Testament audience that all those seeings of God do not count. Or they have been superceded by something far more momentous. God has been declared, manifested, made known, and seen in the incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.Not only is God "seen" for the first time in this mingling of God and man. The New Testament reveals that those who receive Christ, and partake fully of His salvific process, be led as brothers into this expression of God in man.Please consider these confirming passages: Christ is the Author of salvation who is leading many sons of God into the glorious expression of the Divine Life, the Devine Being. He comes again into the inhabited earth not refered to as the only begotten but as the Firstborn: This is important also because it relates to the victory of that corporate Manchild who overcomes the accuser of the brothers in Revelation 12. But for now I want you to see God's purpose to dispense His life into man to produce brothers for Christ the Firstborn Son of God. And as related to John 1:18, God was seen in the man Jesus, which reality transcends in John's mind, to all of the appearances of God in the Old Testament."No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." Before His resurrection He is the only begotten Son. At His resurrection He became in addition, the Firstborn Son of God. First, strongly implies that other sons of God will follow. He is the HEAD of this Body of sons of God. Latter I will show you an example where God sends God, Jehovah sends Jehovah, and where Jehovah is both the Sent One and the One Who Sends.For now we see the Angel of Jehovah used interchangeably with Jehovah in Exodus 3: The Angel of Jehovah appeared to Moses (v.2) and Moses was afraid to look at God (v.6).There are other examples. This is all I have time for now. We should come back to this passage. I said that Christ is not the archangel Michael. I said that Christ is not an archangel. I may have said that Christ is not an angel. However, in the sense that Christ is also sent, He can be called an Angel in that sense. As a Messenger who is sent by His Father, yes, Christ is the Angel of Jehovah in that sense. In the book of Revelation I believe that these signs of "another Angel" symbolize Jesus Christ the Son of God: Revelation 7:2; 8:1; 10:1; 18:1.I believe that because Revelation is made known "by signs" (1:1), the reference to "another Angel" signifies Christ. Darby follows this interpretation in his New Translation by capitalizing Angel in those instances. The Recovery Version follows the same practice.But to say that Christ is an angel in the same way as Michael or Gabriel, is wrong. Hebrews says that "all the angels" will worship Christ in His second coming to the inhabited earth (Heb.1:6). And it is not to angels that God has subjected the coming earth, which statement would be false if Christ were the archangel Michael: Hebrews 1:4 through 2:18 is specifically dedicated to drawing a contrast between the Son of God and angels. He is superior to any and all angels. It seems that Russell must have totally ignored this portion of the New Testament. Notice that you wrote here: The first three passages you submit, (Ge 3:9-19; 6:13; 12:1) say nothing about an angel. And you should not use Galatians 3:19 to prove that these passages refer to angels for two reasons:1.) All three passages do not refer to God communicating the Law.2.) In Galatians 3 Paul is making a point that the promise of God was given without the mediation of angels as opposed to the Law of God which was. The promise of God to Abraham in its first Old Testament reference is Genesis 12:1. That is when Jehovah speaks to Abram and gives him instructions and a promise.I believe that Paul is saying that " [b]ecause the law was ordained through angels in the hand of a mediator and, unlike the promise, was not given by God directly to the people, it is not primary but secondary in God's economy." [Footnote 19(2) of Galatians 3:19, Recovery Version]Galatians 3:19 is exactly the wrong passage to use to try to prove that an angel mediated the giving of the promise to Abraham in Genesis 12:1. And stretching the meaning over the other Genesis passages is also weak for this is all before the Mosiac Law.Now Exodus 5:1 which you also listed as evidence of God speaking through an angel is before the giving of the Law of Moses too. It does have Moses and Aaron telling Pharoah that Jehovah had spoken to them. Using Galatians 3:19 to prove that an angel did the speaking is at best a arguable assumption. That is unless you admit that the Angel of Jehovah is Jehovah in that mysterious way in which I have shown in Exodus 3.I will have to discontinue here for now.May God have mercy on us to clear our heart's eyes to see Christ with His first place in all things. And may He grant us to see there is utter coordination and cooperation between the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. There is no possibility of competition or envy or jealousy within the Triune God. For Each lives in the Other for the dispensing of God's life into man.Visit God‘s Economy: recovered by Witness Lee, enjoyed by local churches Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

You should not be discouraged. That is unless you are looking to be discouraged. You should not be turned off. That is unless you want to be turned off.There are differences of opinion about Evolution among Evolutionists. Probably you don't throw up your hands and decide it is hopeless ever make sense of all these fine points of differences.God knows our heart. We can come to Him in prayer and have a good long honest outpouring of our heart to Him. He is willing and eager to save us from "doom". He takes no delight that you feel "doomed".If you come confessing your sins and seeking Jesus as the way of redemption I am sure that you will be led by the Holy Spirit, in spite of debates here.Knowing the past nature of your posts though, I wonder if you're shedding "crocodile tears" but inwardly are delighted that two Bible readers don't agree on everything. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Don't worry about me. I'm doing fine. I have no regrets about anything.Given a chance to live life over, I would only hope to begin to believe in Jesus earlier.Maybe you didn't read that He's "the God of eternal encouragement". Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

We're talking about the Divinity of Jesus here. Maybe you could kind of work your sympathetic comments into that subject.Why is it a mental illness to believe that God was incarnated in Jesus Christ ?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Okay Brian,Why is it a psychosis to believe in the Divinity of Christ?Are you a professional psychologist ? Is belief in Jesus Christ as God come as a man mentioned in professional journals as a mental illness in the United States now ?Why is it a waste of my life to believe in the Divinity of Christ ?What do you propose is a better use of my life than following Jesus Christ as my Lord and my God ?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

So you have an assertion and those who do not believe it are mentally ill?Suppose I am far more convinced by the evidence that Jesus is God become a man. Being more persuaded of the evidence for this is a mental illness in the US ?

Thanks, you just provided me with some more good evidence to the claims of the Lord Jesus Christ. Your obsessed and bigoted remark leads me to believe that I must be on the right track to believe in Christ.Your attitude is very similar to that of the man who authored 13 of the 27 New Testament documents - Saul of Tarsus who being obsessed with destroying the Christian church also breathed out his vehement disbelief with threats and insults.Your obsession certainly also seems reminiscient of the maddened mob reaction of unbelief to Christ in the Gospels. You needn't go into the other question as to what you have that would be a better use of my life and time. You've already indirectly answered that question for me.

If you're waiting for me to say "My Brian, you took the words right out of my mouth!" I wasn't going to say that.The evidence for Christ being God incarnate is for me adaquate. And proof is different from persuasion.And I don't claim that I can prove the matter which openly is taught as one of faith, with mathematical certainty.But most importantly I would state that proof is not persuasion. And where God has mercy upon me to submit my will to the evidence presented to me others, like yourself, may still be in a state of hardening your will so as to keep Jesus out of your lives.The resurrection of Christ is a well evidenced historical event. Probably your attempts to discredit the evidence would be filled with "perhapses," "proboblies," "maybies," and all manner of ludicrous conspiracies parroted from skeptical websites.I don't want my thought processes damaged by these twisted alternative conspiracy thoeries. I don't think it is mentally healthy to insist on so many possible alternatives to the more obvious.Christ was Who He said He was and acted like it. It is less credible to me that some people concocted such a fictional character. And no one has ever convinced me of sensible motivating reasons they would have had to do so. Not in the case of Jesus. Political reasons, sexual reasons, financial reasons, even religious reasons all fall short.I don't think people would concoct such a person as Jesus even if they were able to do so.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This is a matter of the availabity of Jesus. Some people say that Jesus is not available. Others of us do not believe this. Rather we consider His teaching.1.) He says that He will be with His believers even unto the consummation of the age. His final words in Matthew's Gospel:"And behold, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matt. 28:20) Neither Matthew or John close their respective Gospels with the impression that Jesus has "left". Luke and Mark in balacing contrast record His ascension.2.) John records the questions His disciples asked Him about perculiar words. How is it He will manifest Himself to His disciples but not to the world? Jesus assures future generations that He will manifest Himself to those who love Him. (This is the Bible Study Forum).Judas asks how this could be: He will manifest Himself to His lovers yet not to the unbelieving world by this means: He and His Father as the Divine WE will come to his lover and make an abode with him.3.) John is careful in his gospel to convey that this coming and indwelling of Jesus to future generations of disciples is by means of the Holy Spirit who is Christ in His pneumatic form:Jesus teaches that this relationship of the Holy Spirit being IN the disciples is actually more expedient for them. Christ teaches He will be available as the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, to dwell in the lovers of Christ. Paul confirms that this life giving Spirit is Christ Himself: We should think of this giving of life, divine life, as the giving of God to man. And it is simultaneous with the Father and the Son coming as the Divine "WE" to make an abode with the lover of Jesus.4.) Jesus teaches that the sending of this Holy Spirit is His own coming: The world cannot see this Comforter. But the disciples know Him because He is with them at that time. And He WILL be IN them soon: -" ... but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." The one who was physically with them will soon have a closer relationship with them, a more expedient relationship with them. He will be in them.It is as Jesus became "a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) that He could transform His relationship from being BESIDE His disciples physically to being IN His disciples imparting divine life to them and manifesting Himself to them.And as life giving Spirit, the "another Comforter" who is "the Spirit of reality" and "the Holy Spirit" that Christ is available today and will be with His disciples "all the days, even unto the consummation of the age."Notice that the "He" in verse 17 becomes the "I" in verse 18: (This is a Bible Study).We are thankful to the Apostle John for recording these aspects of Christ's teaching. And the bottom line here is that though the world does not see Jesus, He is available to his lovers as "life giving Spirit" to indwell them abiding in them, and remaining with them until the consummation of the church age.Actually, He will be with them longer than that. For the Comforter, the Spirit of reality will be with them [b]"forever" (v.16): Jesus is available today. That is today.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.