Since it IS Christmas time......

I suppose you are right. To make it fit the story. It's still fucked. I mean, rumor has it, Jesus was a straight dude. The things he allegedly said were good for the world. To chalk it all up to nothing and his only purpose was death? Not my cup of tea, thanks anyways.I'll admit I am early on in my hardcore non-belief. I've been in-flux for some time, but now I am past the breaking point. All of what i am learning now is really showing me that the whole thing is just a really neat story: shit told around a campfire or stolen from previous groups of people.

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Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl SaganFor me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan

I think the intent is celebrating the birth of Jesus not the birthday. You might as well get uptight about the celebration of the New Year 12 days after the Winter Solstice.And Easter is not the same day every year, it is the 1st Sunday, after the 1st full moon, after the Spring Equinox, I think.Christmas is still a fun time with kids and grandkids!

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What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonYou can't build a Time Machine without Weird Optics -- S. Valley

Less than that stupid documentary, Zeitgeist claims.
That wouldn't change that it is just a date during which celebrations take place that some people use to celebrate the birth of one person, and other people celebrate the rededication of the Holy Temple, the Signature of the Constitution of the Republic of China, Odin, the coming fertility, the hunt, African Culture, the victory of good over evil, or of course "Holiday" (celebrating whatever the Pastafarian decides). True, but its equally easy to focus on these kinds of details, and not on other ones - missing the big picture in the opposite direction so to speak.

Ah - then excuse my tone, if it seems offish. If you continue to study things like this, you'll have a lot of those moments. It really is astonishing what people don't realize about the origins of their own beliefs, and learning about the origins of beliefs you once does have a certain unique quality to it. Enjoy!

While that movie did get my ball rolling (albeit, some time ago. It's been a while since I have seen it), that is not what I had been referencing as of late. Right. I agree. So, as I pointed out to Bluejay, since all of this is known, why then, is christmas a "christian holiday"? Wouldn't it be more of just a Winter tradition? (which admittedly, it is becoming just that)Edited by hooah212002, : my shift key is being stubborn. I's are coming out i's

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Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl SaganFor me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan

Quite not. I admire your reservation, especially in some of the more heated debates where certain parties just don't listen.

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Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl SaganFor me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan

Who is uptight? I am seeking knowledge, in my admittedly brash undertone. That's what it is all about, my friend.

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Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl SaganFor me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan

Christmas is a Christian holy day, the clue being in the title Just like hanukkah is a Jewish one.However, it appears us evil secularists have stolen the name of Christmas and used it to describe what we are celebrating too. So I suppose Christians are going to have to get used to the fact that Christmas is not only a holiday that occurs at the same time as other religions holidays, but it also refers to a secular festivity as well.

You've got me there. I guess I just use the term out of *gasp* tradition.I do celebrate "christmas", just not Christ-Mass. Indeed. Happy Winter Solstice!

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Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl SaganFor me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan

Hi Hooah. Though Constantine the Great reigned in the 4th century, he had a lot to do with the origin of Christmas.The nativity was not celebrated until the 4th century. The time of the birth of Jesus was/is not known.
As the Roman emperors did, Constantine worshipped the Roman gods. The sun god, Sol was one of the most notable pagan Gods.Before Constantine defeated the most powerful rival, an Italian, Maxentius, as he was worshipping the sun, he had a vision of a cross of Christ in the sun with the inscription in Latin, "in this sign you shall conquer." He won the battle and attributed his victory to Christianity due to the vision.About a year later he signed the Edict Of Milan which edicted rights be granted to all religions. He became a Christian and interspersed many of the pagan rituals into Christianity, essentially establishing this religious conglomerate of paganism and Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire. Constantine became head/pontifix maximus of both church and state. From this emerged the Roman Catholic Church.Two pagan winter festivals were celebrated, one honoring Mithras, Persian god of light which began on Dec 25th and ending Jan 1. He interspersed the nativity of Jesus into the festivals related to the pagan celebration. Thus the Christian holiday of Dec 25.As others have suggested, most Christians simply attribute the date to the recognition of the birth of Jesus. The communion remembrance of the death of Jesus for the sins of the world, however is the only celebration that the Bible officially sanctioned.Santa St Nicholas was also derived from the RCC, as I understand.ABE: I've said the above to agree that the Christ-mass celebration is indeed derived from paganism. As well, that explains some of the paganistic aspects of Roman Catholicism, some of which have interspersed into the protestant faiths to a greater or lesser extent. Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Saturn (Chronos, Father Time) is actually a god. Nor is this his birthday, or day at all. The Roman feast of Saturnalia ran from the 17th to the 23d, though much of the customs involved have been co-opted by the Church. Yes, there are many different gods and customs that revolve around the winter solstice, which tends to take place on the 20th or 21st.But the guy whose birthday is actually 25 December is Mithras. This is a god who has come a long way, hasn't he? Beginning as Mitra, a minor god of light in Hindu polytheism with prehistoric roots, under the Persian religion of Zoroaster he changes sides in the war between the Devas and Ahuras and becomes a major player as Mithra, angel of the sun. From there he infects the Roman Empire as a Mystery religion with various degrees and orders, and finally achieves world supremacy in 321 when Constantine merged the imperial cult of Sol Invictus with the socio-political organization of Christianity and the military secret society of Mithras. We wish you a hairy Mithras
We Wish You A Hairy Mithras
WE WISH YOU A HAIRY MITHRAS
and a happy Jew near ....

I would just like to remind you that if you believe none of the things contained in the scriptures as real or from God, you are wasting valuable time. If its not real, why waste all your precious time reminding me of facts that dont matter. Or are you secretly suppressing the fact that you may actually believe it. Come on now be honest. arent you really afraid it might be an its YOU that you are trying to convince hereI can say with assurance that if i were on the side of Atheism or agnosticism I would not be wasting precious time arguing with and about something I dont even believe in. Indeed why in the world would it matter.I dont believe in evolution but i feel no intrest in debunking something I dont even believe.BTW, enjoy celebrating Christmas this year or next while you are complaining "ALL THE WAY", thats a jingle.EAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.

Hi, Hooah. You're no more pagan than we are.How come you get to celebrate pagan holidays?Edited by Bluejay, : No reason given.

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-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)Darwin loves you.

Hi, Iblis. Oh, I did write "goddess": brain fart. I didn't say it was his birthday.A lot of Christmas traditions can be traced back to the Saturnalia festival. That's why I mentioned it.Lastly, I had never heard of Mithras until now. Thanks for the education.Merry Christmas and stuff!

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-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)Darwin loves you.

Hi, EMA. Are you seriously fear-mongering on a Christmas thread, dude? On Christmas Day, even!Have some class! Seriously!----- Warning: the following paragraph contains sarcasm.We Christians never go around trying to convince people of the folly of atheism or paganism, so I think you're totally justified in telling atheists that they should stop trying to convince people of the folly of Christianity.Oh, wait...I guess they'll leave us alone when we leave them alone, eh?-----I hope you have a Merry Christmas, EMA!

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-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)Darwin loves you.