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Author Topic:   Since it IS Christmas time......
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 25 of 126 (540423)
12-25-2009 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by hooah212002
12-24-2009 2:56 PM


The Emperor Constantine's Role
hooah writes:
if we believe any of the bible, (psst: I don't) even this would lean towards this jesus fella being born in spring at best.
So what we have is a random date, chosen by the romans/catholic church, in an effort to supress the pagans and/or make it easier to convert them. Either way, it is an act of deceipt.
How, again, is x-mas a religious holiday? (technically speaking)
Hi Hooah. Though Constantine the Great reigned in the 4th century, he had a lot to do with the origin of Christmas.
The nativity was not celebrated until the 4th century. The time of the birth of Jesus was/is not known.
As the Roman emperors did, Constantine worshipped the Roman gods. The sun god, Sol was one of the most notable pagan Gods.
Before Constantine defeated the most powerful rival, an Italian, Maxentius, as he was worshipping the sun, he had a vision of a cross of Christ in the sun with the inscription in Latin, "in this sign you shall conquer." He won the battle and attributed his victory to Christianity due to the vision.
About a year later he signed the Edict Of Milan which edicted rights be granted to all religions. He became a Christian and interspersed many of the pagan rituals into Christianity, essentially establishing this religious conglomerate of paganism and Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire. Constantine became head/pontifix maximus of both church and state. From this emerged the Roman Catholic Church.
Two pagan winter festivals were celebrated, one honoring Mithras, Persian god of light which began on Dec 25th and ending Jan 1. He interspersed the nativity of Jesus into the festivals related to the pagan celebration. Thus the Christian holiday of Dec 25.
As others have suggested, most Christians simply attribute the date to the recognition of the birth of Jesus. The communion remembrance of the death of Jesus for the sins of the world, however is the only celebration that the Bible officially sanctioned.
Santa St Nicholas was also derived from the RCC, as I understand.
ABE: I've said the above to agree that the Christ-mass celebration is indeed derived from paganism. As well, that explains some of the paganistic aspects of Roman Catholicism, some of which have interspersed into the protestant faiths to a greater or lesser extent.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by hooah212002, posted 12-24-2009 2:56 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by hooah212002, posted 12-25-2009 2:19 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 126 (540605)
12-26-2009 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by hooah212002
12-25-2009 2:39 PM


Re: The Public Mandate
hooah writes:
I don't find the holiday objectionable. The only problem I have with it is christianity's attempt at making it all about them. How many stories have you heard about secular groups trying to put up holiday decorations, only to have christians fight them tooth and nail? Christians make christmas ALL about jesus.
1. As a matter of fact it has become pretty much all about Christianity since paganism and athiesm has played a minority role in Western cultures.
2. In a republic, the majority of the people elect leaders who establish laws, etc. So long as the elected leadership follows the mandates of their constituency regarding Christmas symbols on public property, what dissenters need to do is muster up a majority so as to elect leadership who become mandated to rescind the status quo. Thus, in Jefferson's day, the Bible and Watts Hymnal were standard texts in all schools and church services were held in the halls of Congress, the music being accompanied by the US Marine Band. Now that the electorate does not have that mandate from the majority, it is no longer the practice.
3. If Athiests (ABE: or pagans) wish to display some symbol, let them buzz off from harassment of Christianity and let them do their own thing in their own place until they have achieved the mandate at the polls for predominance in the public arena.
Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted in context and update Message Title.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by hooah212002, posted 12-25-2009 2:39 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by DrJones*, posted 12-26-2009 9:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 126 (540608)
12-26-2009 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Peg
12-26-2009 5:33 AM


Celebration Of The Communion
Peg writes:
the unfortunate thing about christmas, is that Jesus requested his diciples to celebrate his death, not his birth.
I think this is significant when you consider that the bible writers make no mention of the date of his birth. If his birth was so important, then why not mention it? This is evidence of the church's failure to relay the new testament message accurately. They have simply adopted false religous ideas and corrupted true christianity. But that's no surprise...Jesus said it would happen.
Hi Peg. This is so true. At the Last Supper, Jesus broke the bread and shared the wine, symbolizing his body which was to be broken and his vicarious blood which was to be shed for the sins of the world.
1 Corinthians 11:23-26 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me." In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Peg, posted 12-26-2009 5:33 AM Peg has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 126 (540614)
12-26-2009 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Iblis
12-26-2009 8:55 PM


Re: shennanigans?
Iblis writes:
I've seen plenty of evergreen trees and old men in sleds with reindeer, both pagan symbols, in the public square. And also an assortment of yule logs, stars, and snow men. Which interesting public beatdowns am I missing?
Good point, Iblis.
Jeremiah, the OT prophet condemned the Pagan practice of cutting trees and decorating them in the homes.
Jeremiah 10:2-4: (KJV)
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (KJV).
All Pagans who want to be represented in the public arena need do is to leave off whining and proclaim the true origin of the decorated tree and the date, Dec 25, as theirs. Perhaps this would enlighten Christian sheeple that what they are practicing actually has pagan connotations.
As for the athiests, well, they can simply leave off protesting in the cold, enjoy the vacation, profit from the sales, visit the folks, eat, drink and be merry.
Edited by Buzsaw, : delete word

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Iblis, posted 12-26-2009 8:55 PM Iblis has not replied

  
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