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Author
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Topic: Since it IS Christmas time......
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Peg writes: of course it does. his death took place in the spring on the Passover according to the Jewish calendar, it was Nisan 14 (also known as the month of Abib) in the year 33 CE. The bible also says that John the Baptist began his ministry at 30yrs of age in the 15th year of Tiberius Ceasar. 6 mths later also at the age of 30yrs, Jesus began his ministry. I suppose you're right. I stand corrected. Seems we can actually narrow it down to the 15th of Nisan and even up to the hour. In that case then Matthew was wrong about the Magi visiting Hereos the Great.
Wiki writes: Herod (Hebrew: הוֹרְדוֹס, Hordos, Greek: Ἡρῴδης, Hērōdēs), also known as Herod I or Herod the Great (born 74 BC, died 4 BC in Jericho, was a Roman client king of Israel. Herod allegely died while Jesus was in Egypt, sent there to avold herod's decree that all boy 2 years of age and under were to be killed. This would make Jesus's birth no earlier that at leleast 4 BCE. add 30 5o that and you are at 26 CE.
Wiki writes: Tiberius Julius Caesar Augustus, born Tiberius Claudius Nero (November 16, 42 BC — March 16, AD 37), was the second Roman Emperor, from the death of Octavian Augustus in AD 14 until his own death in 37 the 15th year of Tiberias would be 29 CE. So if Jesus was 30 in the 15th year of Tiberias, he had to be born after the death of Herod so then Matthew is wrong or if Matthew was right then Luke is wrong.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 49 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-27-2009 10:35 AM | | Hyroglyphx has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Herod the great died in 4BCE, thus the latest that Christ could have been born was 4BCE. If he was 30 in the 15th year of Tiberius, 29 CE(Tiberius's reign started in 14 CE), the Christ could not have been 30 at that time, at the minimum 33 years. If Luke is right about the 15th year of Tiberius, then there is no way that the Magi could have seen Herod at the time of Christ's infancy since if Luke is right than Christ could not have been born before 1BCE in which case Herod was already dead for about 3 years. No matter how one slices it, one of them, Luke or Matthew, had to have gotten it wrong.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-27-2009 6:03 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 54 by Peg, posted 12-27-2009 8:51 PM | | bluescat48 has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 57 of 126 (540711)
12-27-2009 11:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by Peg
12-27-2009 9:08 PM
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One other point is that Jesus was in Egypt for 3 years and that Herod wanted all boys up to the age of 2 killed which could add as much as 5 years to the birth. this, even if Herod died in 1BCE could still place it anywhere up to 6BCE for the Nativity. There were also 2 total lunar eclipses in 5BCE which further complicates the picture.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by Peg, posted 12-27-2009 9:08 PM | | Peg has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 59 of 126 (540749)
12-28-2009 12:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 58 by Peg
12-28-2009 5:03 AM
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It really is debateable because ancient historians do not always present the same dates as you can see. Which brings us back to the original comment, that we don't know when the crucifixion occurred.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 58 by Peg, posted 12-28-2009 5:03 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 60 by Peg, posted 12-28-2009 5:20 PM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 61 of 126 (540774)
12-28-2009 11:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 60 by Peg
12-28-2009 5:20 PM
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Peg in Message 58 writes: according to Appianos - 39bc-37yrs = 2/1bc according to Josephus - 40bc-37yrs = 3/2bc accordint to josephus - 36bc-37yrs = 1bc/1ce It really is debateable because ancient historians do not always present the same dates as you can see.
Peg in message 60 writes: yes we do that one, it was Nisan 14 of 33ce before sundown. you know that the way they piece history together is by the writings of the ancient historians. Some of them used different calanders and used different methods of reckoning time. For instance, Josephus likely used 'regnal' years when mentioning the first year of a rulers coming to power because that is what the Jews were accustomed to. But the Romans did not use regnal years, they would say the rulership of someone began on the first day of his appointment. For christians, the historical acccounts of Jesus apostles are even more accurate because they wrote with the guidance of Gods holy spirit and therefore when their writings give a different picture, i think it is more trustworthy Which is why I said that Me in message 59 writes: Which brings us back to the original comment, that we don't know when the crucifixion occurred. With different reconings there is no way to determine when any event actually occurred. Edited by bluescat48, : missing [/qs] Edited by bluescat48, : double quote Edited by bluescat48, : ditto
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by Peg, posted 12-28-2009 5:20 PM | | Peg has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 62 by Iblis, posted 12-29-2009 12:43 AM | | bluescat48 has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 100 of 126 (541150)
01-01-2010 12:46 AM
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Reply to: Message 99 by Peg
12-31-2009 11:29 PM
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The OT is all about the Messiah who was to come, while the New Testament is about the evidence that Jesus was the Messiah and how he fulfilled the requirements that the Messiah would fill. The jews are wrong because most of them rejected the one they had been waiting for. But there are many jews today who are leaving Judaism and accepting christianity because they have been willing to look at the evidence. But how do you know for sure that you are right & they(The Jews) were wrong? That the entire New Testament wasn't a hoax? Anyone can write a story. And anyone can interpret such to say just about anything.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by Peg, posted 12-31-2009 11:29 PM | | Peg has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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I wonder if there is any statement by anyone on any subject in the world that cannot be "objected to" with demands like that? It's an old way to run someone around. Don't do it, hey? If you believe they're wrong, say why. My point is that anyone can manipulate any written word to say what he wants it to say particularly if the manipulator is charismatic ie: Adolph Hitler. To fully take any thing said or written as truth requires physical evidence not simply hearsay. Edited by bluescat48, : added line
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 106 of 126 (541187)
01-01-2010 12:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 103 by Peg
01-01-2010 6:45 AM
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prophecy, archeology, secular history Oh, and a little faith Actually a whole lot of faith and a lot of closemindedness.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 103 by Peg, posted 01-01-2010 6:45 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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worldview
I agree. But (I haven't the context of all this)... your own religious position/worldview/whatever would pass this test, would it? Hmm? Because if not, this involves making demands of others that we couldn't pass ourselves. Basically, my worldview is a 3 part system: A) Acceptance B) Skepticism C) Rejection The 3 are based on evidence physical versus hearsay In the A Category are items which have physical evidence and which can be falsified. examples: Plate-Tectonics Gravity Evolution Oxidation-Reduction Periodic Law In the B Category are items which have some evidence but not enough or concrete enough to be in category A. examples: Abiogenesis String Theory Alien Abduction Bigfoot ESP In the C category are items which have no concrete evidence only hearsay. examples: Magic Supernatural Beings Faith Healing Homeopathy Young Earth
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Re: worldview
You see, that list is not the basis on which anyone lives their life. It's merely a random list of things which you choose to believe, for reasons which certainly are non-rational since neither you nor anyone else on this board are a specialist in all of them. You did not not ask my moral view. It is simply whatever I would not want done to me, my family my friends or my possessions, would be immoral. ie: murder, robbery, rape, assault, arson, etc. ie, that which would be immoral to anyone with any scruples at all, no religious views required, because I have none. Also none of the list I gave in my last post are beliefs or disbeliefs , as I said I need concrete physical evidence, not faith.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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