Smelling The Coffee: 2010

Erm OK. And Moslems also say that the Quran is a book that advocates peace. Yes? Well many Islamisists might disagree. Buz you have been one of the most vocal I have seen here regarding the use of torture, imprisonment and "pre-emptive strikes" in the "war on terror".Can you honestly not see how a Middle Eastern Moslem might well see you as a supporter of terrorism as they perceive it to be? Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

And the OT.........? So war justifies warrior behaviour. Right?Rightly or wrongly that is exactly what many Moslems believed about the ascendancy of the decadent West, it's evil cultural world influence and it's support of Israel.Rightly or wrongly these were genuinely held beliefs. Do you deny that? So those who commit terrorist attrocities think they are warriors waging war and that all is justified. Exactly as you do? Yes?You have hit the nail on the head as to why irrational religious fundamentalism is so dangerous in all it's forms. And that includes yours.Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

OK. And are "we" not their target also? Well does art reflect reality or does reality reflect art? Are we saying that the Moslem world had no grievances against the West before Hollywood decided it needed a new "baddy"?

Fair enough. Who did you have in mind? And how much of a practical threat do you think they are? OK. I accept that. But who do you think deserves equal attention based on practical reality as opposed to media bias? OK. I accept that. But who do you think deserves equal attention based on practical reality as opposed to media bias? True. But that could be translated as Hollywood promotes what people will believe is (semi) realistic. Enviro-disaster movies are the buzz-pic of the moment. This is regardless of any truth or otherwise in global warming catastrophe theories whether the wider media supports that view or not. I would suggest likewise with regard to Middle East terror movies. When you are as paranoid as me there are conspiracies at every turn!!

Buz - Didn't GWB say that God told him to invade Iraq?

So a born again Christian says he has gone to war with another country because God told him to and you don't think that has any relevance to fundamentalist beliefs and violence at all?

Ah - OK. Now I see where you were coming from. I have taken to wearing several coatings of tin foil and the largest saucepan I can find.

And if God had told GWB specifically NOT to go to war in Iraq?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

It would be hilarious if it weren't so true. Daddy Bush is but a mere demi-god. Oh Oni how can you not realise that only one of them is talking to the one true god whilst the other is an obvious nutjob? Or is God a total bastard messin with the minds of both to amuse himself? Or maybe those telepthic dogs are havin a laugh. Or could it be those magic moonbeams infiltrating the minds of both. Or are they both frikkin dangerous loons? Nah. I reckon God is a luddite. I mean has anyone really heard from him directly since stone tablets went out of fashion?

So did GWB claim that God told him to invade Iraq?How is this different to an Islamic terrorist claiming that Allah told him to blow up an aeroplane (or whatever)?Seriously Buz what do you see as the defining difference between the two?

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." - Francis H Wade.And anyway you are still missing the point - Both GWB and the Islamic terrorists under discussion are both claiming to have had direct communication with God of some sort. They are not saying that they inferred their conclusions from biblical/Koranic interpretation. So are they both wrong about their divine revelation? Or only one of them? Or is God a sadistic arse playing with both of them for his own amusement (or some other such divine and inscrutable motive)?What do you think?

Ah I see. Yes I do appear to have missed your point.I guess technically I wouldn't say God was a lying bastard because it seems very unlikley that he is actually behind these self proclaimed godly experiences.Rather I would say that those claiming to have conversed with him are engaging in dangerous wishful thinking at a minimum and are quite possibly lunatic deluded fanatics.

It matters what the meaning of the word is in the sense of everyone meaning the same thing.Of less importance is your attempt to apply your own personal meaning that is contradictory to what everyone else means in order to prop up a failed argument.

If you wanna talk 2,000 year old Greek then you do that. Although you might have a problem finding people to converse with.But don't be suprised if the rest of the English speaking world treat the word you are using with it's modern meaning and include the context and consensus formed over the past 2,000 years as a given.Anyway what term would you use to describe what everyone else means by the term "Christian"? Communication is the key yes? Just to be clear.

Well if we are willing to forego the mystical mumbo-jumbo aspects of being a Christian I could be described as a "Christ Proponent".In ICANT's eyes it seems I am very nearly as much a Christian as you are!!!! Fuck!!!