Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Potential falsifications of the theory of evolution
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 406 of 968 (600140)
01-12-2011 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 405 by arachnophilia
01-12-2011 5:34 PM


Re: Bump for ICANT
Hi arachnophilia
RAZD already posted one above.
Two actually, see Message 397. One from the fossil morphological data and one from the genetic data.
Curiously, they agree.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by arachnophilia, posted 01-12-2011 5:34 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by arachnophilia, posted 01-13-2011 12:16 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

barbara
Member (Idle past 4832 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 407 of 968 (600141)
01-12-2011 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by Taq
01-12-2011 11:45 AM


Re: Bump for ICANT
There is plenty of fossils found in every state in the U.S. of the Pleisocene large mammals: Saber Tooth, Puma/cougar, American Lion, horse, dire wolf, mammoths, mastodon, Cheetahs, some marsupials, Giant beaver and many more.
They have not found any fossils of gorilla and found very few of chimp fossils but yet have found all the different species of human/ape.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Taq, posted 01-12-2011 11:45 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by Coyote, posted 01-12-2011 8:21 PM barbara has replied
 Message 418 by Taq, posted 01-13-2011 11:07 AM barbara has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 408 of 968 (600142)
01-12-2011 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by barbara
01-12-2011 8:16 PM


Re: Bump for ICANT
There is plenty of fossils found in every state in the U.S. of the Pleisocene large mammals: Saber Tooth, Puma/cougar, American Lion, horse, dire wolf, mammoths, mastodon, Cheetahs, some marsupials, Giant beaver and many more.
They have not found any fossils of gorilla and found very few of chimp fossils but yet have found all the different species of human/ape.
In the US???? Gorilla, chimp, and human/ape (by this I assume you mean what we call transitionals).
This is news to me. Please list some of your sources.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by barbara, posted 01-12-2011 8:16 PM barbara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by barbara, posted 01-12-2011 9:01 PM Coyote has replied

barbara
Member (Idle past 4832 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 409 of 968 (600148)
01-12-2011 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by Coyote
01-12-2011 8:21 PM


Re: Bump for ICANT
What I meant to say that there are no fossils found in Africa for the gorilla and the chimp. Yet the U.S. has many fossils of these large mammals that once existed here.
Many of the fossils that represent the human lineage look more like chimp skulls then human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Coyote, posted 01-12-2011 8:21 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Coyote, posted 01-12-2011 9:36 PM barbara has not replied
 Message 419 by Taq, posted 01-13-2011 11:13 AM barbara has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 410 of 968 (600153)
01-12-2011 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by barbara
01-12-2011 9:01 PM


Fossils in the US
What I meant to say that there are no fossils found in Africa for the gorilla and the chimp.
Actually there are, but not many. The forest is not a good environment for preserving and fossilizing bones. We're lucky we have anything at all from some environments and time periods.
Yet the U.S. has many fossils of these large mammals that once existed here.
Many of these are bones preserved in dry caves or in places like the La Brea Tar Pits. Those have provided a wealth of specimens.
These environments are pretty much the opposite of forests.
And we are dealing with bone preservation rather than fossilization in most cases.
Many of the fossils that represent the human lineage look more like chimp skulls then human.
Actually, no. They show a range of features from chimp-like to human-like, and everything in between. I would say that there are more that look human-like than chimp-like. This would include all of the H. erectus specimens. You have to go to the Australopithecus et al. before you start so see many of the chimp-like traits, and those are often not really as prominent in the postcranials as in certain features of the crania.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by barbara, posted 01-12-2011 9:01 PM barbara has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 411 of 968 (600168)
01-13-2011 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 388 by Dawn Bertot
01-12-2011 11:14 AM


Re: Bump for ICANT
For the creationist its not so much that we reject your "evidence", it simply makes no sense that they would not have survided in some fashion
There are numerous possible reasons they did not survive. In the case of the Neanderthals, it is possible that they couldn't survive the last ice age along with the sapiens, or they may have been simply killed by the sapiens the way some sapiens do today, because they were different. The actual reason may never be known.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-12-2011 11:14 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 412 of 968 (600169)
01-13-2011 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by RAZD
01-12-2011 7:34 PM


Re: Bump for ICANT
RAZD writes:
Curiously, they agree.
must be some kind of horrible coincidence!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2011 7:34 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 113 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 413 of 968 (600181)
01-13-2011 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 389 by Coyote
01-12-2011 11:27 AM


Re: Bump for ICANT
Examples of extinctions when there are "millions of these things" are abundant. Check out the details on the extinction of the Passenger Pigeon. From Wiki:
How do you conclude these facts if there is little or no fossil remains. If there are enough fossil remains wouldnt that confirm it, atleast for the pigeons? if there is not how did you or he decide all these facts
Where are the mass graves of Passenger Pigeons? They existed in the billions.
Firstly I would say that birds can fly, therefore they can avoid the natural disasters that would befall one of those fellows that ran around with a rock tied on the end of a stick that looked much like yourself, no doubt. Ha Ha just kidding about that last part there
Fly my young bird fly to safety
I would admit in this instance that these would have been immediately eaten due to size and the nature of thier existence as prey or decaded rapidly. Probably not so with primative man
But this follows whether there was enough fossil evidence to begin with.
Like I said before mine is a simple observation, Im not pretending to have knowledge of such things. the information provided by RAZD and others assist in providing possible explanations to that observation
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Coyote, posted 01-12-2011 11:27 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by Taq, posted 01-13-2011 11:25 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 113 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 414 of 968 (600182)
01-13-2011 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 391 by dwise1
01-12-2011 11:46 AM


Re: Bump for ICANT
It is false for you to claim that we can provide no explanation. We have; you just cannot understand it. Nor are you alone. Most creationists also cannot understand the answers that science provides, because they are scientifically illiterate.
Once gain you fail to understand, which is not surprising since most of your posts are an attack of a personal nature on creationist and that is mostly what they consist of
many qualified people that DO understand all the "science" disagree with the tenets and conclusions reached by evolutionists
I know that you are vehemently opposed to learning anything, but I'll cast this pearl before you anyway: learn something about biology, evolution, population dynamics, and human evolution so that the answers can start to make sense to you.
As usual you do not understand even the obvious points. Evolution has nothing to do with creation or creationism. Creation is not dependent upon whether evo is true or not. they are two different things and established in a different manner
If evo was true it would not affect creationism. Your personal attacks on creationist are worthless because you do not understand simple points of reasoning
The title of the website notwithstanding, creation and evolution are not at odds with one another
Evolution is an explanation of the nature of things, creation is an explanation of the existence of things
If evolution were true it would not affect the validity of the scriptures or that which is contained there.
But more specifically it would not affect the tenets of creation/ism because these are not established by the scriptures by but simple logic applied to the existing world
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by dwise1, posted 01-12-2011 11:46 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by Coyote, posted 01-13-2011 10:19 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 421 by Taq, posted 01-13-2011 11:21 AM Dawn Bertot has replied
 Message 423 by barbara, posted 01-13-2011 11:25 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 488 by dwise1, posted 01-15-2011 2:12 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 415 of 968 (600185)
01-13-2011 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 414 by Dawn Bertot
01-13-2011 10:07 AM


Wrong again
many qualified people that DO understand all the "science" disagree with the tenets and conclusions reached by evolutionists
Only when they are creationists.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-13-2011 10:07 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 113 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 416 of 968 (600186)
01-13-2011 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by Taq
01-12-2011 11:59 AM


Re: Bump for ICANT
Why don't we see both Elephants and Wooly Mammoths?
Havent we actually found one of these intact frozen in the ice? I suppose when you can produce an intact hommonid frozen in the ice, you will immediately get my attention
Dawn Bertot

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Taq, posted 01-12-2011 11:59 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by Panda, posted 01-13-2011 10:56 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 420 by Taq, posted 01-13-2011 11:15 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 417 of 968 (600191)
01-13-2011 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Dawn Bertot
01-13-2011 10:23 AM


Re: Bump for ICANT
taq writes:
Why don't we see both Elephants and Wooly Mammoths?
Dawn writes:
Havent we actually found one of these intact frozen in the ice? I suppose when you can produce an intact hommonid frozen in the ice, you will immediately get my attention
This appears to be more of your 'lying for jesus'.
Why are you avoiding the question?
Is it too difficult for you to understand?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-13-2011 10:23 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 418 of 968 (600193)
01-13-2011 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 407 by barbara
01-12-2011 8:16 PM


Re: Bump for ICANT
There is plenty of fossils found in every state in the U.S. of the Pleisocene large mammals: Saber Tooth, Puma/cougar, American Lion, horse, dire wolf, mammoths, mastodon, Cheetahs, some marsupials, Giant beaver and many more.
They have not found any fossils of gorilla and found very few of chimp fossils but yet have found all the different species of human/ape.
We know that both gorillas and chimps exist, so why don't we have any fossils of them? Could it be that some areas of been searched more thoroughly for fossils than others? It is much easier to scrape away the dirt in the dry savannas of Africa than it is to dig up rainforest in the Congo, for example. Also, could it be that some environments are also better at producing fossils to begin with?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by barbara, posted 01-12-2011 8:16 PM barbara has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 419 of 968 (600194)
01-13-2011 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by barbara
01-12-2011 9:01 PM


Re: Bump for ICANT
Many of the fossils that represent the human lineage look more like chimp skulls then human.
Indeed, they do. However, the pelvis of these species look much more human than chimp. Overall, they have a mixture of modern human and primitive ape features, exactly what you would expect to find if humans evolved from a common ancestor with chimps.
Here is a nice comparison of an Australopithecus pelvis with the pelvis of modern humans and chimps:
The Australipithecus pelvis is squattier and wider. On top of that, the femur starts outside the and angles inwards towards the center line just like in humans. Both of these features are indicative of bipedalism like that seen in humans. Compare this to the chimp pelvis that is taller and skinnier with no inward angle for the femur.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by barbara, posted 01-12-2011 9:01 PM barbara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by dwise1, posted 01-13-2011 11:47 AM Taq has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 420 of 968 (600195)
01-13-2011 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Dawn Bertot
01-13-2011 10:23 AM


Re: Bump for ICANT
Havent we actually found one of these intact frozen in the ice? I suppose when you can produce an intact hommonid frozen in the ice, you will immediately get my attention
You didn't answer my question. Why don't we see both wooly mammoths and elephants living today?
As for a frozen humanoid:
Otzi:
http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/archaeology/otzi_iceman_2.jpg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-13-2011 10:23 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 447 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-14-2011 2:46 AM Taq has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024