|
Author
|
Topic: How Does Republican Platform Help Middle Class?
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
|
Message 196 of 440 (611165)
04-06-2011 12:54 AM
|
Reply to: Message 194 by xongsmith
04-05-2011 4:40 PM
|
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
Do Berserker Mass Murderer families have a right to brainwash their children to believe as they do? (See the Silver People.) Do Fascist families who love Hitler have a right to brainwash their children to believe as they do? Do those weird peculiar religious sects have a right to brainwash their children to believe as they do? Do Republican families have a right to brainwash their children to believe as they do? Does any family have the right to brainwash their children to believe as they do? Yes, on all accounts. But that's what Public Education is for... Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 194 by xongsmith, posted 04-05-2011 4:40 PM | | xongsmith has not replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
The parent's right to raise their child is not absolute Good thing I never said it was.
People have a right not to be harmfully brainwashed by their own parents. And, of course, you'll be the one to decide what's 'harmful brainwashing', eh?
But they have no right to expect that others won't try to communicate egalitarian speech to their children, they have no right to insulate their children from society so as to preserve the sanctity of their racist message, ... Like I said already, that's what Public Education is for. Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 197 by crashfrog, posted 04-06-2011 1:22 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
Oh, so you're willing to countenance limits to a parent's right to indoctrinate their child No, I'm not. But I also don't think that the parents' rights to raise their child are absolute.
Why would I have anything to do with that determination? How would this determination be made? What would be harmful and what would be harmless?
... since not every child enjoys a public education. And that's the first problem with 'public education' in the U.S.: it's not public. Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 203 by crashfrog, posted 04-06-2011 5:36 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
Crashfrog writes: Here's a Canadian example:
quote:
A Manitoba court has ruled that a couple won't be able to keep their two children because of racist beliefs that were taught in their household.
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100211/custody_100211 Closer to home:
quote:
"Father Shall Not Use Profanity or Racial Epithets in the Boys' Presence or Within Their Earshot":
That's from a Delaware Family Court order that came out in 2002, JJ.W. B. v. K.A. B., 2002 WL 31454072 (Del. Fam. Ct.), but that I just came across. If the father used such words in violation of the court order, he would be subject to criminal prosecution for contempt (though practically speaking it seems likelier that the court would further reduce his visitation time with the children).
http://volokh.com/posts/1247177815.shtml quote:
An appeals court in New Jersey has denied Deborah and Heath Campbell custody of their three young children, Adolf Hitler Campbell, JoyceLynn Aryan Nation Campbell and Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie Campbell. (Honszlynn Hinler is meant to honour Heinrich Himmler, the Reichsfuhrer of the SS.)
http://familyjustice.wordpress.com/...-parents-lose-children In this case, custody was ultimately retained by the racist parent, but only because the other parent had his own history of abuse and alcoholism. The court ultimately did not have to rule on the legitimacy of seeking sole custody due to racism of the custodial parent:
quote:
There was bitter custody battle Friday in a Valley courtroom with two young white supremacists at the center of it all. The twins have gained national attention for their hate-filled concerts. The parents of the Gaede twins have been in a bitter custody dispute. The girls' father thinks they are being poisoned by their mother, a self-professed white seperatist.
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?id=4231273 The founder of racial terrorism group "National Vanguard" lost custody of his children due to his racism and association with the white supremacy group:
quote:
(Strom's former wife Kirsten) Kaiser said she was contacted the same month by Elisha Strom, the outspoken neo-Nazi activist who Kevin married after losing custody of his children to Kaiser and returning from Minnesota to live on the Alliance compound in 2000.
http://www.splcenter.org/...ssues/2007/spring/family-matters All very sad cases that demonstrate the relentless trampling of constitutionally-guaranteed freedoms by a corrupted, overbearing Government that responds to fly-by-night psychologists and pop-culture sociologists by eradicating, without any reasonable cause, the liberty most fundamental to citizens truly living under a for-the-people government: the right to speak. Jon Edited by Jon, : clarity
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 204 by crashfrog, posted 04-06-2011 6:23 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 208 of 440 (611245)
04-06-2011 7:07 PM
|
Reply to: Message 206 by marc9000
04-06-2011 7:01 PM
|
|
Re: Can't resist
Public education is for the only thing not in the above list! For Democrat teachers to brainwash children into liberalism and atheism! Of course all laws prohibit public teachers from speaking in favor of political or religious ideologies, so once again, your claim is just crap.
Many countries that have national health care are generally worse off than the U.S. More crap; how about giving some evidence to support this?
Did you know that slavery didn’t originate in the western world, that it was a worldwide affliction for centuries before the U.S. was founded? Who cares where it originated? What in the Hell does it have to do with anything at all? Jon Edited by Jon, : clarity
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 206 by marc9000, posted 04-06-2011 7:01 PM | | marc9000 has replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 214 of 440 (611251)
04-06-2011 7:32 PM
|
Reply to: Message 209 by marc9000
04-06-2011 7:14 PM
|
|
The question would then be what have you done with the billions of dollars that you’ve soaked the middle class for, for 4 decades? One solution might be to stop taxing the Middle Class to pay for the EPA and start taxing the wealthy, rich, immoral assholes who profit from their companies' dumping toxic waste into other people's backyards... But that's just a fuckin' suggestion, ya know... you pro'ly won't take it too seriously.
Not many, because they didn’t have near the appetite for alcohol and illegal drugs at their fraternity parties as college kids do today.  Too God damn funny! I think you'd have to drink your way to new fucking liver to even come close to spending enough money on booze to make the cost even a fraction of that of the tuition/fees of a public school.
Should we have food insurance? We already do! Government spending has to be paid for by the productive citizenry of that government. LOL. Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 209 by marc9000, posted 04-06-2011 7:14 PM | | marc9000 has not replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 216 of 440 (611253)
04-06-2011 7:35 PM
|
Reply to: Message 211 by marc9000
04-06-2011 7:23 PM
|
|
Re: Can't resist
marc9000 writes: Many countries that have national health care are generally worse off than the U.S. More crap; how about giving some evidence to support this? You're a rare type of liberal. Even most liberals will grudgingly admit that the U.S. has one of the highest standards of living in the world. So are you not actually going to provide the evidence needed to support your position?
It would indicate that the ownership of slaves by some of the U.S. founders wasn't necessarily something they originated as part of U.S. foundings, as is always implied by liberals. Who cares about the founders? They're dead. Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 211 by marc9000, posted 04-06-2011 7:23 PM | | marc9000 has not replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
So, you think there's no limit to a parent's prerogative to raise their children Actually, I specifically said that I support a limit. Remember? You said quite directly:
quote:
Crashfrog in Message 197: The parent's right to raise their child is not absolute
To which I replied plainly:
quote:
Jon in Message 200: I never said it was.
I don't know how much more clear I can make it; I do NOT think parents ought to have limitless rights in how they raise their children.
That which causes harm would be harmful; that which causes no harm would be harmless. Well that's pretty meaningless...
That doesn't answer my question (and indeed, public education is public, it's right there in the name!) Unfortunately, 'public education' in the U.S. is not public; those who choose to opt out of it are free to do so in favor of avoidance educations (read jar's post above). A truly Public Education would be mandatoryall members of the public would have to attend the public institution for a certain number of years. Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 219 by crashfrog, posted 04-06-2011 7:52 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
society's interest in protecting children. Society has no interest in 'protecting children'; the interest is in creating good citizens, whether that means protecting the kiddies or not.
I don't see any particular problem of ambiguity for the term "harm"; if there were, both criminal and civil justice would be completely impossible. The meanings used in criminal cases seem to have no applicability to the rights of parents to teach their children what they want to teach them. Perhaps you can show how it is harmful for a parent to tell his kids that 'niggers are the devil' in the same way it is harmful to beat someone with a baseball bat. Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 224 by crashfrog, posted 04-06-2011 8:28 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
It's a function of mental and emotional abuse, since the harm is mental and emotional. How you choose to equate mental and physical harm is up to you. How is it mentally harmful? How is it emotionally abusive?
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 228 by crashfrog, posted 04-06-2011 8:44 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 232 of 440 (611285)
04-06-2011 10:49 PM
|
Reply to: Message 230 by crashfrog
04-06-2011 9:06 PM
|
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
By being harmful and abusive. In what way? What is harmful about telling a child that they are to hate certain people?
Can you explain how naming a child "Adolph Hitler" would be conducive to mental and emotional wellness? I really don't need to; if you think it's a problem, then it's for you to show why such a thing is bad. Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 230 by crashfrog, posted 04-06-2011 9:06 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
Surely if history has taught us one thing, it's that children named "Adolf Hitler" don't turn out all that well. And why do you say that? And how is that specific to racist parenting?
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 242 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-07-2011 12:07 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 249 of 440 (611337)
04-07-2011 1:25 PM
|
|
|
More Things to 'Help' the Middle Class?
quote:
Las Vegas Sun: Among the riders Republicans have tried to include are cuts in funding to National Public Radio, Planned Parenthood, Head Start, low-income housing benefits and the Environmental Protection Agency’s ability to regulate greenhouse gases and issue rules on climate change...
So, how does cutting funding to NPR, Planned Parenthood, Head Start, low-income housing, and the EPA help the middle class? How does less public radio make the middle class better off? How do more teenage pregnancies make the middle class better off? How do fewer children entering kindergarten with the basic skills needed to succeed make the middle class better off? How does increasing the cost of housing for low-income renters make the middle class better off? How does restricting how the EPA keeps neighborhood air clean make the middle class better off? Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
I'd love to discuss all of my examples, at your earliest convenience. Perhaps you'd like to pick one of your examples to start with?
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 253 by crashfrog, posted 04-07-2011 1:58 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
|
Jon
Inactive Member
|
Re: Republican Platform is brainwashing
Since my point is that it is common, my point can only be demonstrated by the plurality of examples. But certainly we can do only one thing at a time; no matter how many examples you give, to examine them in detail requires that we start with one of them and go to the next one. So, which one should we examine in detail first? Jon
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 255 by crashfrog, posted 04-07-2011 3:55 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2