Existence

Hi fear, Same site. Look under gravity and the twins paradox 11 paragraphs down.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

So we have two clocks. One constructed in, and residing in, Bolder. One constructed in, and residing in, Greenwich. Both of them are constructed identically to be accurate to within one second every 3.7 billion years. But the two clocks "tick" at different rates. Why adjust Bolder to agree with Greenwich rather than vice versa? Indeed. But if I want to measure this "duration" quantity of yours which is distinct from time which of the two clocks should I use?How do I measure this quantity "duration" you keep referring to? (which effectively amounts to an absolute time - whether you realise this or not)

Hi Straggler, Yes they tick different rates because of the effect of the gravatational fields they reside in. If you adjust the Greenwich clock tick to the tick of the Bolder clock they would both be at a tick rate higher than one at sea level.But in reality it makes no difference as long as the aim is to have the clock ticks match. You just have to decide what measurement of time you are going to use. Existence, exists.
Duration is a segment of Existence.
That duration is measured by the concept man figured out using the rotation of the earth in relation to the sun.But let me be clear duration is a memory, it is in the past as you cannot have the memory of the duration unless it is completed.There is no duration in the present or the future.The presence is existence and the future has not happened yet. You can measure the duration of an event anyway you desire and you can desiginate any numbers you desire to represent what that time is as it is only a concept of man and is oblivious of existence.Example, a 1/4 mile drag race.The car is sitting in the staging area the lights begin to stage and the light goes green, a automatic timer starts, the car leaves the start line and crosses the finish line the timer stops and displays the lapse time or duration of the race. This duration cannot be displayed until the race is over.Now what concept of time do you want to use to measure that duration?If you use the standard measurement which is the division of one rotation of the Earth in relation to the sun.Then you could say the duration of the race was 3.7 seconds.But you would have to determine what you was going to use to represent the length of that duration.The measurement that is normally used is the concept of time invented by man to measure duration which is stated in seconds, minutes, hours, days and etc.But you can use anything you want.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Duration may refer to: The measure of continuance of any object or event within TimeTime is a part of the measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify rates of change such as the motions of objects.In common usage, existence is the world we are aware of through our senses, and that persists independently without them.These definitions are taken from wiki, they seem pretty straight forward. I just cant understand where the confusion about them comes from.I understand your argument about GPS clocks, I have read alot on it recently, but it seems like agreed upon definitions of words might help, JMO

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"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. ThompsonAd astra per aspera

I could be wrong (very wrong, actually), but it seems as though ICANT doesn't grasp that time is relative.

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"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

Hi hooah, What kind of an object is time that it can be relative to something?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I think it is more that he believes in Lorentzian relativity, and not GR/SR as Einstein saw it. If I am wrong then please correct me ICANT, as I am trying to grasp the confusion here and see the topic move forward.

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"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. ThompsonAd astra per aspera

I don't understand your question, since I don't view time as an object.I will answer by saying this: the faster you go, the slower time goes. For example: *if you were to orbit the event horizon of a black hole, just far enough so as not to get sucked in, but just close enough so as to have the gravity sling you around near light speed, time would relatively, and for all intents and purposes, come close to a halt. You would not personally feel these effects. You would age normally and notice nothing......until you flew back to earth. It is likely 10 times the amount of time has passed back on earth (cavediver/DA correct me here. I don't have the actual figures). It depends on how closeto light speed you travel and how long you orbit for. ACTUAL TIME. Not the way we measure it, but actual time. All your relatives would be dead and gone. Would they notice a "fast forward" because you were travelling so fast? No. Would you feel a "slow motion" because of it? No.*I use the black hole example because I watched a show with Michio Kaku and he proposed this as a possible way to come close to light speed travel.Does that make sense? If not, cavediver can ream me a new one for bastardizing the explanation.

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"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

Time is not an object, it is a system of measurement.I am sitting in front of my computer, moving 0 mph, one might also say the earth is rotating at X mph therefore so am I, or even that the earth is traveling around the sun at x mph, therefore I sitting still am still moving at x mph. It is all how you look at it and from what perspective/ point of observation. Mph can be substituted by any time/distance ratio, feet per second,...ect Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

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"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. ThompsonAd astra per aspera

Well, this is almost right if one understands why. This is not correct.The clocks you are speaking of are cesium-cascade clocks. They "tick" at the same rate regardless of anything. 9,192,631,770 ticks per second.The difference is that from the reference frame of Greenwich the Boulder clock appears to tick faster, while from the Boulder reference the Greenwich clock appears to tick slower.Look at cesium-cascade clocks. Understand how they operate.The difference is, as you say, due to gravity, but how? why?Since the electrons in the cesium atoms all follow the same physical laws regardless of their reference frame, why is there a difference?Because gravity actually affects time. In a gravity well all physical processes, electron states, your heart rate, a perfect metronome, everything slows down compared to a reference frame outside the gravity well. This is time dilation. Time is relative between reference frames.So our clock in Boulder is "ticking" at the exact same rate as the clock in Greewich: 9,192,631,770 ticks per second. The difference is that the "second" is dilated between the two locations by the effect of gravity. And both are correct.

Hi fear, Well I believe that time which is a concept of man is part of the measuring system used to sequence events, measure events, intervals between them. In other words to measure the duration of any of those.But everybody else here believes time is a property of the universe, not something you measure with. Existence is everything that exists whether we know it exists or not.
So I think I agree with your definition. The confusion comes from the argument that time is a product of the universe (dimension) that exists in the universe which can not exist until time exists which has to have space to exist in.Great logic.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi hooah, Relative to what?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Perhaps you could, oh I don't know, read my post wherein I explained it to you? If you don't understand it, say as much.

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"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

Hi fear, I believe that an atom will pulse at different rates due to the distance they are from the attracting gravatational field. I believe the tick rate of an atom can be changed by excitement.I believe that time is a part of the measuring system that is a concept of man to measure duration and is based upon a complete revolution of the Earth in relation to the sun.Man has created clocks that measure the length of duration of events as well as intervals between events, which is marked by seconds, minutes, hours and etc..Which brings me back to the OP.There is existences. God claimed to be all that exists. Anything that could produce the universe had to be all that has ever existed, all that exists today, and everything that will exist in the future. Energy and matter cannot be created. They can switch back and forth.The universe in which we live has to exist in existence. Because if there was no-existence there is no mechanism for existence to begin to exist. Or at least no one has presented one so far.If string theory is correct there had to be existence in which the branes banged together. If Hartley/Hawking instanton is correct there had to be existence in which the instantton poped into existence and turned into our universe. If there was a singularity which expanded into our universe there had to be existence for it to exist in.Without existence nothing can exist.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi hooah, Well if it is not an object how does it dilate? And you know that for a fact? because... When was this carried out as a physical experiment?Last I heard it was a thought experiment. It makes perfect sense as to what you believe according to what you have posted in the past.But it makes no sense to someone who believes in universal duration in existence that man has invented the concept of time to measure duration by.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."