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Author
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Topic: Existence
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 196 of 1229 (615834)
05-17-2011 11:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 191 by crashfrog
05-16-2011 7:09 PM
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Re: Time
Hi crash,
crashfrog writes: And it's already been explained to you what time is; it's a characteristic of spacetime. If there is only spacetime how can time be a characteristic of itself? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 191 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2011 7:09 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Time
Hi hooah,
hooah writes: What do you mean? Do you know what is meant by time dilation? It's not like dilated pupils or a woman dilating during labor. It's a wee bit different. Time dilation is the act of time expanding. Isn't that what happens durning labor.
hooah writes: It's a basic part of relativity, ICANT. Then why don't all scientist agree? You don't mind if I wait until the twin paradox thought experiment is conducted in a spacecraft, before I jump on board do you? You can believe anything you desire to believe I am just a little skeptical.
hooah writes: These are hardly constituted as my "beliefs", ICANT. They are facts that have the maths to back them up. They have been proven to be factual. Thought experiments do not become facts until the experiment is actually conducted with positive results. So until the experiments are run you are taking the thought experiments on faith that it will be true when the experiment is finally run. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 198 of 1229 (615837)
05-17-2011 12:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 187 by frako
05-16-2011 3:39 PM
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Re: Time
Hi frako,
frako writes: There is a problem with that because it is impossible for exsistance to reach our point in this eternity, because it has to pass an infinite number of points to get to us and it is impossible to do so. Why is it impossible? In eternity thare is no past and no future there is only now. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 187 by frako, posted 05-16-2011 3:39 PM | | frako has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 203 by frako, posted 05-17-2011 4:20 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Time
Hi fear,
fearandloathing writes: Your speed is a little off if you are referring to speed of our orbit, its 66,622.1765 mph. I was refering to the suns trip around the Milky Way while we are traveling around the sun. That speed is 140 mps which is 504,000 mph.
fearandloathing writes: My point is all of these are correct, it all is relative to the observer and what he uses as a reference point., If we can agree on this then we can maybe discuss how this simple truth can also relate to time. Why is it all relative to an observer? Are you telling me that if there was no observer everything would be standing still? I believe they would keep on doing their thing whether there was an observer or not. Just as eternal existence has duration doing its thing whether man had ever come up with a concept whereby that duration could be measured or not. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 200 of 1229 (615839)
05-17-2011 12:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 197 by ICANT
05-17-2011 11:59 AM
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Re: Time
You don't mind if I wait until the twin paradox thought experiment is conducted in a spacecraft, before I jump on board do you? It specifically has to be two twins, one on a spaceship? You wouldn't accept some other example of time dilation as a result of velocity?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 197 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 11:59 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 201 of 1229 (615845)
05-17-2011 2:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 197 by ICANT
05-17-2011 11:59 AM
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Re: Time
Time dilation is the act of time expanding. Who told you this? Where do you get your definitions? That "definition" seems rather basic......let alone wrong.
You don't mind if I wait until the twin paradox thought experiment is conducted in a spacecraft, before I jump on board do you? What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?
I am just a little skeptical. You crack me up, ICANT. The religious man telling the Atheist he is a skeptic. Irony at it's finest.
Thought experiments do not become facts until the experiment is actually conducted with positive results. So until the experiments are run you are taking the thought experiments on faith that it will be true when the experiment is finally run. For the second time, ICANT: I used the thought experiment as an explanatory tool. That is not the subject of discussion. What IS the subject of discussion (time being relative) has the maths to back it up and has been proven factual. May His Noodley Holiness bless you and Pasta be upon you.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 197 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 11:59 AM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 205 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 4:39 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 202 of 1229 (615852)
05-17-2011 3:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 182 by Straggler
05-16-2011 8:35 AM
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Re: Time
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes: ICANT writes: Straggler writes: So we have two clocks. One constructed in, and residing in, Bolder. One constructed in, and residing in, Greenwich. Both of them are constructed identically to be accurate to within one second every 3.7 billion years. But the two clocks "tick" at different rates.
Yes they tick different rates because of the effect of the gravatational fields they reside in. OK. So lets say that I have the readout from each of these clocks side by side on the computer screen in front of me. I must correct myself as I was not taking into consideration that the clocks built in different places would be calibrated to the international agreed tick rate of 9,192,631,770 ticks per second. So they would both tick the same until moved out of their IFR. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 182 by Straggler, posted 05-16-2011 8:35 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: 09-04-2010
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Message 203 of 1229 (615853)
05-17-2011 4:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 198 by ICANT
05-17-2011 12:08 PM
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Re: Time
In eternity thare is no past and no future there is only now. Well there is a past you know what you did 5 minutes ago and there is a future something will happen 5 minutes from now. whiteout the flow of time everything would be stationary and nothing would happen ever.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 198 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 12:08 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 207 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 4:52 PM | | frako has replied |
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Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: 09-30-2006
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Message 204 of 1229 (615854)
05-17-2011 4:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 202 by ICANT
05-17-2011 3:58 PM
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Re: Time
Oh ICANT you are so close and yet I fear so so far......
Straggler writes: So we have two clocks. One constructed in, and residing in, Bolder. One constructed in, and residing in, Greenwich. Both of them are constructed identically to be accurate to within one second every 3.7 billion years. But the two clocks "tick" at different rates. ICANT writes: Yes they tick different rates because of the effect of the gravatational fields they reside in. Straggler writes: OK. So lets say that I have the readout from each of these clocks side by side on the computer screen in front of me. If I want to very very precisely measure how long something takes which clock should I use and why? ICANT writes: I must correct myself as I was not taking into consideration that the clocks built in different places would be calibrated to the international agreed tick rate of 9,192,631,770 ticks per second. So they would both tick the same until moved out of their IFR. Yes ICANT they both tick at 9,192,631,770 ticks per second. Yet the two clocks in question show very accurate but slightly different durations for the same event. So if I, sitting at my desk, want to very very precisely measure how long something takes which clock should I use and why?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 202 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 3:58 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 211 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 5:40 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Time
Hi hooah,
hooah writes: Who told you this? Where do you get your definitions? That "definition" seems rather basic......let alone wrong. In Geometry:
quote:
Dilation is a similarity transformation in which a figure is enlarged or reduced using a scale factor ’ 0, without altering the center.
Source American Heritage Dictionary: dilation
quote:
1.The act of expanding or the state of being expanded.
Source You got something else spit it out. Question: How do you do any of these things to time unless you have an object? Concepts don't dilate.
hooah writes: You crack me up, ICANT. The religious man telling the Atheist he is a skeptic. Irony at it's finest. I am more skeptical about some of the things so-called religious people put forth.
hooah writes: What IS the subject of discussion (time being relative) has the maths to back it up and has been proven factual. So why are there disagreements about time dilation? Where is the concensus? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: 09-04-2010
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Message 206 of 1229 (615857)
05-17-2011 4:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 205 by ICANT
05-17-2011 4:39 PM
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Re: Time
So why are there disagreements about time dilation? Who besides you disagrees with time dilation?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 205 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 4:39 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 209 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 5:15 PM | | frako has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 207 of 1229 (615859)
05-17-2011 4:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 203 by frako
05-17-2011 4:20 PM
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Re: Time
Hi frako,
frako writes: Well there is a past you know what you did 5 minutes ago and there is a future something will happen 5 minutes from now. You remember what you did or what happened but that is only a memory. Tomorrow never comes as it is always today when it gets here. There is no past or future there is only now which is continual motion.
frako writes: whiteout the flow of time everything would be stationary and nothing would happen ever. Nothing is motionless. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 203 by frako, posted 05-17-2011 4:20 PM | | frako has replied |
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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: 09-04-2010
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Message 208 of 1229 (615860)
05-17-2011 5:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 207 by ICANT
05-17-2011 4:52 PM
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Re: Time
Nothing is motionless. Because of the passage of time. If you and me get 2 space ships and go to a black hole i decide to stay out of its range you go in. from your perspective you keep falling ever faster in to the black hole until you are ripped apart and crushed into the singularity. From my perspective you keep falling ever slower until at one point you aphere to stop moving and are basicly frozen in time because from my perspective my time travels so much faster then your time your time appears non exsistant to me. no time no movement.
[/qs]You remember what you did or what happened but that is only a memory.[/qs] So your calling my memory a liar and the past never exsisted.
Tomorrow never comes as it is always today when it gets here. So whats midnight tomorrow or today
There is no past or future there is only now which is continual motion. So from where did now move and to where is it going.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 207 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 4:52 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 210 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2011 5:22 PM | | frako has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 209 of 1229 (615861)
05-17-2011 5:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 206 by frako
05-17-2011 4:48 PM
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Re: Time
Hi frako,
frako writes: Who besides you disagrees with time dilation? quote:
Numerous contemporaries and others including, Bruno Betotti, Robert H. Dicke, Edmund Whittaker, Harald Nordenson, G.H.Keswani, Herbert Dingle, Alfred O'Rahilly, Leon Broullouin, Louis Essen, Hendrik Lorentz, G. Burniston Brown, F. Gonzalez-Gascon, Artemio Gonzalez-Lopez, S. Marino, A.A.Logunov, P. Lenard, Tullio Levi-Civita, M.A. Mestvirishvili, P.W. Bridgeman, H.K.Wimmel, N.T.Bishop, Richard Tolman, David Bohm, Mendel Sachs, D.F.Lawden, Dewey Larson, George Gamow and Ian Stewart all questioned the mathematical basis, physical theories and lack of experiments on which Einstein based both his General and Special Theory of Relativity. Pari Spolter, in her book "Gravitational Force of the Sun" takes a mathematically forensic look at General Relativity and its illegitimate son, Special Relativity and exposes as fraudulent what many have claimed to be one of the greatest mathematical achievements of all time.
These are a few who disagreed with 'God' Einstein. So I am not alone when I question the so-called theories of Einstein. I could find more but his contemporaries seemed best. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 206 by frako, posted 05-17-2011 4:48 PM | | frako has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 217 by NoNukes, posted 05-17-2011 10:49 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 210 of 1229 (615862)
05-17-2011 5:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 208 by frako
05-17-2011 5:04 PM
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Re: Time
Hi frako,
frako writes: So whats midnight tomorrow or today A statement of the concept of time invented by man to measure duration in eternal existence.
frako writes: So from where did now move and to where is it going. From now to now. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 208 by frako, posted 05-17-2011 5:04 PM | | frako has not replied |
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