Existence

Page 3, Section 2.3 Relavant Relativity

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Several relativistic effects have already been incorporated into the GPS system so, for the ordinary user of broadcast ephemerides, only two relativistic corrections must be considered.

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Thes rest of the section details the relativistic corrections necessary and (more importantly, though I imagine you will neglect this) why.

...and realise that ICANT wants us to explain to him how the deepest levels of cosmology operate, while he denies the most basic understanding of physics. It is the same as him asking us to explain the astronavigation behind the Apollo landings whilst denying Newtonian mechanics. I think we're all on a fool's errand here.

Oh, I think we all knew that going in. It's just, making fun of him is rather enjoyable so long as you aren't approaching the debate with the intent of convincing him. Instead, it's a chance to look the stuff up ourselves, learn a little, and then point out that he's a moron and why for all the lurkers I'd feel bad about all of us using ICANT as an intellectual punching bag, but he just keeps coming right back for more and just begs for it...

I agree Rahvin, and you never know, maybe he will learn something, whether he admits it here or not.I have tryed to be polite and provide credible information on gps and relativity. I like to hike and use gps in conjunction with a map and compass, and have always found the system fascinating, now I know even more about it, even talked to several people who help maintain and operate our gps system, although I am now on some watch list probably

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"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. ThompsonAd astra per aspera

Here is a paper on Russia's glonass system and effects of relativity on it.I would really like to put this to bed, but I suspect it will be ignored also

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"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. ThompsonAd astra per aspera

I know what you mean, and this is what always drags me back in. But I always end up calling him ten types of idiot, then afterwards feel like I have been taunting a psych-ward patient - I just feel a bit uncomfortable about it

Hi Jaderis, It does not matter what I call that existence it is responsible for everything that exists today.I call that existence the Existing One as He claims. There are those that call it branes but they really had to exist somewhere, and Hawking created imaginary time in which his and Hartley's instanton could pop into existence and create our universe.So, yes that is the question.But:Either there is eternal existence,ORExistence began to exist.If existence had a beginning to exist that means it had to begin to exist from non-existence.So I will ask you:Is there eternal existence?
OR
Did existence begin to exist?If the latter could you please explain how it began to exist from non-existence.It is a fact there is existence as we exist, or if we are even brains in a jar somebody or something is controling the experiment.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Straggler, Not really as I believe duration is constant. The effects of gravity on the timepiece would be very small thus just about any accurate clock would give a pretty accurate time for an event on earth.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Paul, Then how is the adjustment made to the clocks that is placed in orbit to match the earthbound clock? So if the clock can not be adjusted how can it be properly tuned? What has been shown is that the satellite clocks have to be adjusted to an offset that matches the earthbound clocks or the GPS system will not work. It really does not make any difference what causes the difference in the measured duration. They have to match.God Bless,Edited by ICANT, : correct recipent

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Paul,Here is the entire page.

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2.3 Relevant Relativity
Several relativistic effects have already been incorporated into the GPS system so, for the ordinary user of broadcast ephemerides, only two relativistic corrections must be considered. First, the receiver must apply a correction to the transmitted time to account
for relativistic effects arising from orbit eccentricity of the transmitting satellite, This is the At, term defined in the ICD. Second, the finite and universally constant speed c of signals propagating in a vacuum from a transmitter to a receiver, relative to an inertial frame (the geometric path delay), must be accounted for. The receiver must also account for ionosplieric aiid tiqmqAicric: delay corrc‘c tioils, wliicli we do iiot consider here.
Three relativistic effects are gernime to GPS. Rates of clocks in GPS are adjusted (as they are for International Atomic Time) to match the rate that clocks would run on the geoid of the earth. The geoid is a surface of constant, gravitational potential in the rotating frame in which the effects (2) and (3) described below add to a constant value.
The three relativity effects are as follows.
(1) Constancy of the speed of light and relativity of synchronization. GPS time is defined using the principle of the constancy of c to synchronize an imagined system of clocks everywhere in space in the neighborhood of the earth (this is called Einstein syn-
chronization). GPS satellite clocks are in principle adjusted to agree with this imagined system of clocks. This network of synchronized GPS clocks realizes a coordinute time, a system of self-consistent time markers with which to label events. This definition of GPS
time requires a locally inertial coordinate system. GPS time is thus defined relative to an earth-centered inertial coordinate system (an ECIF), but the rate is set to match the rate at which clocks would run on the geoid. An ECIF is also used to simplify the paths of signals propagating from satellites, since, with sufficient accuracy for GPS, light travels in Euclidean straight lilies at the speed c iii vacuuiii relative to such inertial frames [a].
(2) Second-older Doppler shift. A clock moving with respect to an ECIF runs slower relative to coordinate time in that ECIF than if it were at, rest in the ECIF. This is the time dilation effect due to the magnitude of the relative velocity, sometimes called the
second-order Doppler effect. For satellites in GPS orbits, the fractional frequency offset needed to compensate for this is approximately +8.3 x relative to the rate of clocks on the earth’s geoid.
(3) Gravitational frequency shift. A clock at rest in a lower gravitational potential runs slower relative to coordinate time than if it were at rest in a higher potential. This is called the gravitational red shift. Thus, standard clocks closer to the earth run slower than standard clocks farther away, since the gravitational potential becomes more negative closer to the earth. Clocks on GPS satellites run faster than clocks at rest on the earth’s surface. Thus GPS satellite clock frequencies need to be adjusted by a fraction of about -5.3 x lo-’’ relative to the earth’s geoid, to compensate for this effect. To compensate for the relativistic effects described in paragraphs (2) an (3) above for circular orbits, and as a consequence of the requirement that GPS satellite clocks run at the rate’that a standard clock on the geoid would run, atomic clocks in GPS satellites are given a fixed fractional frequency offset of -4.4645 x 10-l’. The user does not have to be concerned about these rate corrections.

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Emphasis mine.So according to that the satellite clocks are adjustable and are adjusted to keep the exact time the clock on earth does.If that is wrong please explain.God Bless,Edited by ICANT, : correct recipient

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

You may want to edit your posts ICANT. You were replying to AZPaul3, not me. I never said the things you quoted, though I agree with them.

Hi fear, From your source.

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SATELLITE CLOCK OFFSETS
GLONASS clock offsets (I) are transmitted as part of each satellite's ephemeris data once every half-hour. The clock information arrives in the form of two parameters (i) the SV clock phase offset from GLONASS system time, @ and (ii) the SV clock fractional frequency offsets from the GLONASS system reference, al. The clock offset az, the second rate of change of phase used in GPS, is not employed by GLONASS as the half-hour update makes this unnecessary. GLONASS does transmit one additional timing parameter - the phase offset between system time and its reference standard, Ao. This last offset is normally only updated once a day. There is again a parallel here between the two satellite navigation systems as GPS also transmits a phase offset between GPS system time and its reference standard, UTC(USN0)

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They adjust the offsets every half hour.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Rahvin,Seems like I had Rahvin on the brain.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Sounds like you really do have a priori. Why did you start this thread if you already have the answer? Do you have any experiments to provide the validity of this gentleman's claim of being the existing one?

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"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

The clock itself is not adjusted. The time output from the clock is adjusted before being placed in the transmitted message. The cesium clock ticks at its natural rate. That rate cannot be adjusted. You were supposed to have studied cesium clocks and the way they operate. Especially the NIST-F1 at Boulder. You should be able to answer this question on your own."Tuning" in relation to the NIST-F1 involves varying (thus "tuning")the microwave frequency until the cluster of cesium atoms fluoreses at its natural frequency. It does not refer to tuning the clock rate itself, but to the process that brings the clock to the point where we can begin to count the clock rate which is always 9,192,631,770 cycles per second. OK. So if you don't care why the output adjustments need to be made (Time Dilation per GR) for GPS to work then why are you even in this discussion?Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.