Existence

Hi Taq, Postulate #2 says the photon is independent of the movement of the source whether that source is moving or sitting still.Therefore if the photon can take on the motion of the Earth or my cycle when I turn the headlight on postulate #2 is false.Are you declaring SR is falsified by the Michelson-Morely experiment.I am not sure that is what the Michelson-Morely experiment shows as it did show the aether did not exist according to their data and assumptions. But the MME has been shown to be false. But don't ask me to elaborate on that subject here as I will not.You won't get an argument from me on the point that SR is false and has been invalidated.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

You know that won't be the last word on the subject. The Michelson Morely experiment has not been falsified.

Hi NoNukes, I have already put one together with an observer at the spot of the flash at B and also another with the observer 149,896,229 meters from B at a 90 angle to the travel of the cycle. That is what I mean by 180 to the first B.The one with the observer at B really shows what the pulse would do. I have enclosed the pulse in a black metal tube with decetors at each end that causes a light top and bottom to flash when the pulse strikes the detector 149,896,229 times.So I will take the time and place an observer 100 meters from the line the bottom of the mirror travels, on that 180 line and place one 100 meters in the direction of the travel of the cycle.When I get those two items added I will post the post.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Again that's simply ICANT's postulate #2. No one has any problem with your version being false. SR does not depend on it. If you believe your version of postulate #2 to be true, why don't you provide us with some evidence. Surely we cannot be expected to take your word for it.Postulate #2 merely requires that the light travel at "c" in a vacuum in any reference frame. It does not require that a photon be unaltered in any other way.Where are those papers of Einstein on postulate #2 that you were going to present? Maybe the answer is in those writings.

Not at all. SR explains the Michelson-Morely experiment just fine. Your claims do not explain the Michelson-Morely experiment. According to your claims we should get different results depending on the position of the mirros relative to the Earth's movement. Your claims are the ones being falsified by the Michelson-Morely experiment, not the predictions made by SR.

You need not bother adding either of the observers. I think what you have will be enough to point out the differences in our positions. If I need another observer, I'll add.

Hi NoNukes, And that is NoNukes version.As I have asked before where does it say "any reference frame"?One of us can't read.Explain what the following says:

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2. Second postulate (invariance of c)
As measured in any inertial frame of reference, light is always propagated in empty space with a definite velocity c that is independent of the state of motion of the emitting body.

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2.Any ray of light moves in the stationary system of co-ordinates with the determined velocity c, whether the ray be emitted by a stationary or by a moving body

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I have asked you before but I will ask again.Is there any kind of a frame other than an Inertial frame of reference?Is there any kind of a frame other than the "stationary" system of co-ordinates?Do both statements state that the light travels at c regardless of the motion of the emitting body?If we can't get this resolved we are at a stalemate.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

If a car is coming towards me at 0.5c and turns on its headlights the speed of the light coming from the headlights measured by both me and the driver will be 3E8 m/s (i.e. c). That's what it means.

Hi Taq, I will ask you the same question I asked NoNukes.What does the following statement say:

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2. Second postulate (invariance of c)
As measured in any inertial frame of reference, light is always propagated in empty space with a definite velocity c that is independent of the state of motion of the emitting body.

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Does it say the velocity of c is independent of the state of motion of the emitting body.Or does it say as you said that the light takes on the motion of the train or cycle?It can't say both.Remember that the light pulse is emitted at a 90 angle to the motion of either.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

It is saying that the velocity of the body and the velocity of light are not additive.This is different than firing a gun from the same vehicle. If a car was approaching me at 0.5c and fired a gun at me I would measure the velocity of the bullet at 0.5c plus the muzzle velocity of the gun. The driver would measure the speed of the bullet as the muzzle velocity of the gun. We would measure different velocities for the bullet. Not so with light.

Hi Taq, Not if your statement that the light takes on the motion of the source.If it does you would see the light coming at you at 299,792,458 meters per second.According to your statement that the light takes on the motion of the source the driver of the car will see the light traveling towards you at 299,792,458 + 149,896,229 which equals 449,688,687 meters per second.That is the only way the driver of the car can see the light traveling away from him at 299,792,458 meters per second.But according to postulate #2 light can not travel faster than 299,792,458 meters per second.Something is wrong with your conclusion or the assumptions you are operating under.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Take the same car moving at 0.5c. Erect a tall pole on the roof of the car with a light sensor at the top of the pole. From inside the car, fire a photon at the sensor. Record how long it takes between the firing of the photon and the measurement of the photon at the top of the pole. Also record the path of the photon.Have someone perpendicular to the path of the car do the same.What are the results?From inside the car, the photon follows a completely vertical path to the sensor. From outside the car the photon takes a less than vertical path from the photon gun to the sensor. In both frames of reference, the speed of light HAS TO BE THE SAME as your postulate 2 states. The less than vertical path is longer than the vertical path observed in the car.If the speed of light is the same for both observers, and the distance is different, doesn't time have to change as well so that the veolocity, measured in distance/time, remains the same?

Here is another thought experiment that Einstein himself described.Imagine that light is moving parallel to a set of infinitely long railroad tracks. You get on a train and start accelerating at high speed in the direction of the light beam. Let's say that you are somehow able to see the light as it passes the train. When the train is travelling at 0.5c how fast do you see the light passing you? When the train is travelling at 0.99c how fast is the light going as it passes you by?Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

Hi Taq, How can there be an Aether in a vaccum?There is no resistance in a vaccum.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Taq, Then why did you say this in Message 727?

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Just as the photon in the light clock takes on the motion of the bike.

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Both of those statements can't be true. I can agree with that. I can't agree with that.If the car is traveling 149,896,229 meters per second towards you and the gun is in the hand of the driver and pointed at you, the gun is traveling at 149,896,229 meters per second. The muzzel velocity of the bullet around 1219.2 meters per second the bullet could not get out of the gun without acquiring the speed the gun is traveling.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."