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Author | Topic: New theory about evolution between creationism and evolution. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
What difficulties particularly? The ones that come to my mind are the 'absolutely no evidence for a role' one and the 'no plausible mechanism' one.
I mean the inherit difficulties in searching of neural system.
If you believe this then I suggest you go and re-read your opening post. You said a whole lot more, most of it totally made up off the top of your head, with not a scintilla of evidence to support any of it. What do you mean? I can't see what i had changed.
Direct- random: Environmental Information , by altogether biochemical pathways always, direct evolution. Natural selection is always present. Random mutations are not excluded, but most of them are in away directet by information. If this is supposed to be a clear explanation with defined terms then I'm afraid it is a failure of epic proportions. At least it has the advantage of brevity. Is there anything you dont understand? Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
As for the papers you have cited , i understand that environmental interaction thrugh diet does not require nervous system intervention. But speculating about i inferred that some types of life style require this intervention ,as i suppose you had said as well. How do differences in lifestyle specifically guide the process of mutagenesis in germ cells so that specific beneficial mutations are produced? You keep forgetting what your speculation actually is. Cooney et all ,if i understand well, state that nutritients, humididity, day circles, life style, ect, can have an inpact on phenotypic genome. So there does exist a mechanism of serving this function , although the authors didn't give any information about. Do you think i have to answer for them. I f i am wrong in explaining them , you should show me up. I didn't use the words mutagenesis or beneficial or random mutations at this point of discussion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
In view of your 'evidence' against i would like to make a question: In case that one or more researchers proved that nerous system does intervenes in evolution process and empathy has effect on genome, how would you call my"speculations" then? A lucky guess with a ridiculous coincidence. Surely a very "bad" luck for some "believers" of dogmatic and suspicious science. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
I agree with your logic.I am trying to find a working and short expression of my "theory" (again this damned word. It is difficult to avoid it) for communication reasons: "Speculations about a possibly right or wrong new theory (again!) about evolution?" or "speculations about a new hypothesis about evolution"?.I think there is a void here in English language.It would be so easy, if we accept a loose meaning of the word.
Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
i agree with your suggestion. In any case the most part of my "theory" , as i discovered in this and other relative threads, after i had formed it, had been adequally dealt long ago by Shapiro Wright, pigliucci, Yablonca.
Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
i agree with your suggestion. In any case the most part of my "theory" , as i discovered in this and other relative threads, after i had formed it, had been adequally dealt long ago by Shapiro Wright, pigliucci, Yablonca. As in not supported. What do you mean? Do i have to support the relation of my ideas with the theory of Shapiro ect?
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
So let's start: Shapiro says:
" ecologically-triggered cell and genome restructurings produce organisms which, at some frequency, will possess novel adaptive features that suit the altered environment. Novel adaptive features can be complex from the beginning because they result from processes that operate on pre-existing functional systems, whose components can be amplified and rearranged in new combinations. Competition for resources (purifying selection) serves to eliminate those novel system architectures that are not functional in the new ecology;" This is the base of my ideas. environment affects genome. Any objections to above?
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
From your Shapiro quote: ecologically-triggered cell and genome restructurings produce organisms which, at some frequency, will possess novel adaptive features that suit the altered environment. How is this any different than random mutations? The key phrase is "at some frequency". This indicates that these same processes also produce neutral and detrimental mutations. IOW, they are random with respect to fitness. I think our difference is about defining "randomness".You didn't answer my question before. Is light's direction change by a crystal random or not? In my opinion it is not random as regards the crystal. In the same logic mutations are not random as regards life and fitness in consequence.Existence of neutral or detrimental mutations does not cancell their nonrandomness, as they all are simply byproducts of nature's forced walk to life and fitness -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
The environment affects evolution via the filter of NS. What has that got to do with you 'idea'? This is what BELIEVERS of Modern Synthesis think of.There are other opinions as well. Stop being just a follower and be a thinker. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
This in and of itself is wholly uncontroversial,
Thank you.
what is is the way he wants to parley this into mutation directed for non-random beneficial traits and even more so his belief that this has something to do with what he calls 'empathy'. Empathy is a type of information. So, it must be accepted, it can act on genome at least in the same way as other information staff idoes.Furthermore as it acts on the same senario and on the same part of genome over long periods of time, maby millions of years, i think has a more profound effect on genome. Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
So, it must be accepted, it can act on genome at least in the same way as other information staff idoes. Furthermore as it acts on the same senario and on the same part of genome over long periods of time, maby millions of years, i think has a more profound effect on genome. There is not a shred of evidence for any of these claims, nor any conceivable mechanism by which such a process might occur. You also make the mistake of assuming that because some environmental influences, which for the sake of argument we might call 'information', can affect the genome through mutation then all forms of information can, but there is no evidence to suggest that this is the case. I quote:SCIENCE NEWS "DNA Repair Under StressEvolution News & Views June 27, 2011 6:00 AM | Permalink DNA repair mechanisms are a re-occurring topic here at Evolution, News, and Views because scientists are constantly uncovering layers of complexity and integration within the DNA repair system that seem to defy any notions of having developed by a random, step-by-step process. DNA repair systems behave as if a command center has notified the cell of damage to DNA, and then the cell dispatches the appropriate units for the particular job at a particular location. So not only is the "double strand" team or the "nucleotide replacement" team dispatched when needed, but the team that would be the most efficient job for the particular cause of damage is dispatched. Another way to think of it is a basketball coach who knows exactly what player to put in not only for a particular play, but against a particular opponent" If this is the case and empathy, among others, but mainly transfers stress related information, is it impropable to infer the importance of it to evolution? Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
Iquote:
"Introductionby David Dobbs Editor, Mind Matters Do animals feel empathy? This question could draw scoffing dismissal from many scientists only a few decades ago. Now it receives marvelously productive attention in neuroscience, psychology, and the burgeoning field of neuroethology. Below, two leaders in these fields, Emory University primatologist Frans de Waal and University of Chicago neurobiologist Peggy Mason, review both the history of animal studies of empathy and a particularly thought-provoking recent mouse study from the McGill University lab of Jeffrey Mogil. As de Waal and Mason note, this clever study holds surprises about both the baseline and the limitations of empathy in these small, "simple" rodents. One can't read these reviews without seeing one's own empathetic capacities and limitations in a new light". _____________________ Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
If this is the case and empathy, among others, but mainly transfers stress related information, is it impropable to infer the importance of it to evolution? God forgive me but I can see where you are coming from. What you seem to be saying is that when an organism in under a selective pressure there is a 'change' in the 'rate' of evolution and another organism can acquire a like 'change' through some information channel that you are calling empathy. Am i right? About so. You have to consider as well, that this same senario is repeated maybe millions of times over generrations, to have this effect. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Information: It is time its undeservedly neglectet powerful role to evolution to be restored.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
That is what is happening here: you like the sound of empathy being involved in evolution. But you idea is no different from 'unconscious transmission'.
I don't talk about subconcious transmission. But babies communicate with mother from one year of age (wikipedia)
There no valence attached to empathy. My idea is that as empathy is a transgenerational phenomenon with the SAME SENARIO, it can succesfully affect genome. So it is an important and very useful means for organism to evolute and survive, for nature in its economy law not to take advantage of.
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zi ko Member (Idle past 3649 days) Posts: 578 Joined: |
As there no for many concepts in science (f.e about randoness in mutations).
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