$50 to anyone who can prove to me Evolution is a lie.

I cannot proove it is a lie, you cannot proove it isn't one. I personally think evolution comes from a certain type of thinking that has certain values--- but scientists put all their faith in it as if it is a religion(though they'd deny this). In my experience it is the more i think about evolution (or anything else i guess) the more questions i have to it. There are certain parts of the evolutionary theory that are undeniable---- but for it to be true it has to be completely true--- and i still have many significant problems with evolution. I will soon start a thread on my questions.

Rrhain, thanks for your post, you have lots of good points:
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I personally think evolution comes from a certain type of thinking that has certain values
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------And you would be wrong. Tell me how a "certain type of thinking" makes the bacteria somehow immune to T4 phage or converts the phage into being able to infect a new host.quote:
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but scientists put all their faith in it as if it is a religion(though they'd deny this).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------And it can't possibly be because it isn't true?Who do you think is more likely to know if evolution is a religion or not: Those who study it or those who know very little about it?First qoute--Yeah that was stupid of me to say, what we think doesn't change the way things are--- by the same tolken, evolution is something someone thought up.Second qoute--- sorry that was too general, i still think there is a scientific bias to fill in holes and claim it is one hundred percent fact.Because i didn't there mention my specific problems doesn't mean i haven't even considered. I do have reasons other than it not feeling right. (i'll talk about it in the thread i'm about to start)Mark-- i made my post short so my ideas aren't clear. It would depend on your definition of evolution, which is basically every part of the theory scientists accept, which i think are some parts they are ignorantly confident in. I admitted that there are parts of the evolutionary theory i would agree with, others do not seem to have as solid of a basis. I also admit i am not an expert on evolution, but i have asked my questions (which i will specifically address on another thread) a few times before and not gotten suffient answers.People have told me i should read some books on evolution if i want to know more. For one thing i am in AP biology, i've read the chapters on evolution. I would guess that does not have all the details, but i do not understand why the details it leaves out cannot be summarized for me before i spend money on a book. I know you'll think its stupid of me to not even try to know, and that if i have faith i should not have fear of reading and considering what is written. But i do think i have reason to be cautious, if you don't agree with me please forget i mentioned this (as i know it will go against points on my intelligence) , that i will be numbed to the subtle ignorances the evolutionists that write it share, and i will forget my questions and become either a clone of everyone else who fully supports the theory, or i will choose to deny it, then i don't know what will happen. Anyway i haven't ruled out the book choice though, i am now starting that thread, and would be interested in knowing what books exist that answer my questions.[This message has been edited by navajoeverclear, 10-30-2003]

sorry all, i'll get to that thread tomorrowI don't dispute the bacteria. I however do not see evolution as in shifting of species happeneing before my eyes. Like i said, not all parts of evolution do i question, that thread on my specifics is coming, i need to go to bed now[This message has been edited by navajoeverclear, 10-31-2003]

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by the same tolken, evolution is something someone thought up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------No, it was something that was observed. I just showed you how you could observe evolution happening right in front of your eyes. Your thinking doesn't change the bacteria or the phage.Something was observed yes, but i think a lot of conclusion are drawn beyond what is observable (yes i know religion does that, and you've surely guessed by now that i support some religion, my point is that you claim not to jump beyond what you absolutely know, and that your beliefs are fact)
Also whether or not i am extremely uneducated and stupid, i don't see why you have to be so defensive to me.

i'm not sure i entirely understand what you are asking, but i'll try to say what i mean. You observe that animals are similar, certain animals are more similar than others, perhaps it appears one animal is a more advanced form of another. This makes sense, but the more i think about it the more holes i see in exactly how evolution works. Maybe these holes can be filled, schrafinator, can you beg those qualified biologists to give me some feedback? Mark said he'd be glad to help too(i'm sure you just haven't gotten on in a few days).someone help me before brad floods the thread (the one i started) with pscycho language at it's nasty most complicated state.[This message has been edited by navajoeverclear, 11-03-2003]

crashfrog- thanks for your post, my brain is too fried at the moment to think of much more to say-- could you please look at my other thread and help, like i said, brad is killing me.BTW--- is there any way to look at things like chromosomes in fossils, or are they basically broken down over such long time periods?Ned- the conclusion you could draw is that life is changing, evolving, improving. Makes perfect sense. As i said my problems come when it think deeper about it. For example how does chromosome addition/deletion work? it must happen. I don't want to know about examples in bacteria, there's a lot more variation on such level. What about humans-- how many chromosomes did the species preceding us have? Is there a way to know how a chromosome(s) was lost or gained to create our species? What is the theory about how this works? Please post your reply about this on the thread i started.It seems people are more concerned (not you specifically, i don't want to start conflict) with persecuting my creationist ways, instead of answering my questions. If it helps your tolerance level, think of me as a disabled or abused person. I was raised to believe in God, my psychology will take me a few years more to be healed from this implanted inefficient method of using my brain. Give me a break while i try to heal, at least I have the tendency to look further than most people inflicted with the disease of religion.(this isn’t the way I feel about myself, but of coarse I wouldn’t know how sick I am, I don’t see why you don’t look at me this way).I have not said there isn’t an answer to my question, if there is one please give it to me.

thanks for the info miss admin, often though i'm not replying specifically to only one person.

I may want to learn about the bacteria at some point, i think that since there's a lot more variation on small levels, finding evolution here wouldn't conflict with my beliefs, plus don't all bacteria only have one chromosome anyway? Also finding evolution at all is not exactly a problem with me, really my concern is that the term evolution has been used to assume more than can really be proven. Even if it can be proven it doesn't matter to faith though, faith doesn't care about proof (well certain kinds it does, there has to be some reason for faith, but it doesn't function like science).Done research about chromosome addition/deletion?
Thats what i'm trying to do here, i think i'd be better off another way though, but thanks for the help, sorry if i been defensive myself and all, i may continue to learn about this on my own, i think trying to find out in this method is just too time consuming.[This message has been edited by navajoeverclear, 11-03-2003]

Maybe i'm not being specific enough. Where i think evolutionary theory is applied to liberally is in absolute surity that humans evolved from more primitive lifeforms, as all other creatures. Like i said it makes sense at first comparison of humans similarities to apes, or similarities of other animals to those which are more ancient. And to answer that which i don't understand (specific questions asked in the thread i started), if wanted to know, as you confirmed, i discovered forums is not the best when a foundation does not already exist. However the greatest reason i do not accept evolution is my religion. Whatever the case, this is not the school i assumed it would be. Thanks for patience and all, goodbye.BTW, junior IN highschool (11th grade).

Oh, i don't want to end on thirteen posts