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Author Topic:   Modern Civics
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1 of 236 (646703)
01-06-2012 9:19 AM


After watching a dialogue between jar and dogmafood concerning the reasons behind jars critique of his own country, I thought perhaps it time to start a topic on Civics.
Wikipedia writes:
Civics is the study of rights and duties of citizenship. In other words, it is the study of government with attention to the role of citizens ― as opposed to external factors ― in the operation and oversight of government.
It seems that modern politics is handicapped by an ignorant public who don't understand the issues and/or the history leading up to the thoughts and beliefs which form modern day politics.
I know that I am not well schooled in the reasoning behind the right wing and the left wing, nor do I even know why these divergent political philosophies even developed. Much of what I know or learn these days is from the internet, and I feel that citizens should play a more active role in policymaking.
Do any of you have any suggestions as to how we could reintroduce this discipline to an apathetic public?
Is there anything else that you feel should be part of a mandatory education in preparation for becoming a U.S. Citizen?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Perdition, posted 01-06-2012 10:31 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 01-06-2012 10:34 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-06-2012 11:51 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 8 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-06-2012 1:49 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 16 of 236 (646818)
01-06-2012 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Perdition
01-06-2012 2:55 PM


Foreign Policy 101
Perdition writes:
Citizenship confers a lot more rights than just being able to vote or run for office. I'd be leery about taking away citizenship unless a test is passed...but voting rights are another thing entirely. I'm all for a test before being able to vote.
I think that the average citizen has a responsibility to understand why the government has arrived at some of the foreign policy decisions (the last three wars, for instance) that it has made. It almost seemed like the average American was simply told that the US was protecting so and so against such and such. We were never given an option to vote in favor or opposition to any of these wars.
I for one would have liked to have a brush up course on why it was our job to protect "freedom" anywhere else in the world when it cost me money, future retirement, and the lives of my countrymen.
Edited by Phat, : spell-o-rama
Edited by Phat, : Title spelling also

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Perdition, posted 01-06-2012 2:55 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Perdition, posted 01-06-2012 4:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 26 of 236 (646885)
01-07-2012 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Jon
01-07-2012 5:21 AM


Re: Voting Tests
Jon blithely writes:
Any right-to-vote test is a moral abomination and has no place in a free democracy.
Uneducated people shouldn't vote. They are easily swayed by campaign ads and news infotainment propaganda. Perhaps mandatory civics could at least warn people of this strategy, so that anyone who votes at least knows darn well the issue and the propaganda and money behind or against it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Jon, posted 01-07-2012 5:21 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Jon, posted 01-07-2012 6:20 AM Phat has replied
 Message 74 by NoNukes, posted 01-10-2012 7:07 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 28 of 236 (646984)
01-07-2012 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Jon
01-07-2012 6:20 AM


Re: Voting Tests
Jon writes:
They are also easily swayed by other silly things, like the desire to vote for policies that provide for their education.
And Ive nothing against that, provided that i dont have to pay to help raise their many kids!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Jon, posted 01-07-2012 6:20 AM Jon has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 41 of 236 (647359)
01-09-2012 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Jon
01-09-2012 11:54 AM


Re: Voting Tests
Jon writes:
Your requirement that people demonstrate a certain standard of intelligence before being allowed to participate in their government has no place in a free democracy.
First of all, we are not a free democracy. We are a republic, and we are not built to support every darn human on the planet. Altruistic though it may sound, it is simply feasibly impossible. In order to change the system, the voters must be educated. Using the teeming masses to change society will only lead to more wars in order to eliminate them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Jon, posted 01-09-2012 11:54 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Jon, posted 01-09-2012 12:28 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 169 of 236 (648128)
01-13-2012 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Jon
01-13-2012 11:04 AM


Re: Perfectly Informed
Jon writes:
And I am actually in favor of limiting this even further.
What on earth for? I think that we all should be able to decide by computer...since most of us now have one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Jon, posted 01-13-2012 11:04 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Jon, posted 01-13-2012 11:27 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 193 of 236 (648258)
01-14-2012 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Jon
01-13-2012 2:49 PM


Teach the children well
Jon writes:
That's not how I read it at all. Hopefully Phat will return to clear it up.
'Cause it really just sounded like he was whining about this or that...
Granted I WAS whining about the appalling lack of societal responsibily and ability to govern ourselves rather than hiring people to do it for us and paying them to argue with each other all year.
We need to teach the the basics about how a civilisation should function.
Perdition writes:
"People should be free to do as they please unless what they want to do hurts others" Voting blindly hurts people. I'd really rather someone who doesn't know what he/she is voting for or against just stay home, but I can't force them to.
And yet the wealthy people can lobby for their causes! If we give the poor and uneducated the power to vote for their interests exclusively, the middle class again shrinks...more of us become poor...and the game is lost. As everyone might expect, I am again whining about the deck that is increasingly stacked against my success.
quote:
A report released on Wednesday by the Pew Research Center found that about two-thirds of Americans now perceive a strong conflict between the rich and poor in this country. That was up 19 percentage points from 2009.
Civics is needed so that we can understand our social contract with each other. Times are becoming too divisive, and class warfare is on the rise. mitt Romney calls it the politics of envy, but its not about envy. Its about basic fairness.
Elizabeth Warren writes:
There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there, good for you. But, I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory and hire someone to protect against this because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea. God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.
The way I see it, the poor need to be educated enough to see the Big Picture. They need to unite with the shrinking middle class rather than try and drag us down to their level.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Jon, posted 01-13-2012 2:49 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
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