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Author Topic:   The US Gov't is Guilty of Murder
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 54 of 318 (672126)
09-03-2012 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by ringo
09-01-2012 12:41 PM


ringo writes:
How would they stop it?
That isn't a rhetorical question. What steps would they take?
As long as the US and others treat this action against fundamentalist militant Islam as a war then we are doomed to fight it forever. As long as we go on dropping bombs on people, whether by drone or manned aircraft, they will be able to attract new members.
Sure, we can win battles, and we can pick off their leaders but there will always be someone to replace them, and it doesn't take many to cause major carnage. You only maintain a tense peace through fear and isolation for so long.
I would also add that in fact Osama bin Laden won in the end. Look at the disruption that he has wrought on the way our societies operate. The most obvious example is what it now takes to get on an airplane, but in I also suggest that most of the economic problems that we are experiencing in the west lead directly back to our response to 9/11.
IMHO, we in the west are always taking the short term view. It all has to be accomplished in one political cycle. The only way to eliminate terrorism is by changing the hearts and minds of those who think the way they do, but it will take generations. As long as we go on dropping bombs on people, particularly with so-called collateral damage, the more we make ourselves look no different than the terrorists. Sure we can say "he hit me first", but after a while there is no perceivable difference and it becomes us and them.
So I suggest that the steps we should take, would be to bomb, (metaphorically speaking), the populations of countries where terrorism thrives with computers and access to the web in an effort to integrate them into the world wide community. This isn't an instant solution and it won't make arms manufacturers happy but it does offer a long term hope.( Don't forget that at one time the American arms manufacturers provided weapons to both the Taliban and Hussein with the blessing of the US gov't. and where did that get us.)
Battles can be won with bombs but building relationship is the way to win or prevent war long term. Look at Germany after WW I. There was the "Treaty of Versailles" which was punitive and intended to essentially punish Germany. Within a couple of decades we were back at war again. After WW II the allied countries, and particularly the US with the "Marshal Plan", helped to build relationship with West Germany and just look at the wonderful friendly relations we enjoy with that country today.
There is no quick and easy fix to this problem. I think it is essential to take a long term view. The argument can be made that there has so far been no repeat of 9/11 in the US, but let’s face it, we aren’t going to be able to stop every terrorist and even one with minimal ingenuity can cause major damage and loss of life. We have seen that several times with non-Islamic terrorism in all western countries. Terrorism will only be ended by winning the hearts and minds of people and I don't think that much of what we are doing is taking us in that direction. I agree that there has been a great deal of wonderful humanitarian outreach being accomplished, particularly in Afghanistan, but I think that in the end that is over-shadowed by the carnage from western bombs and bullets.
Edited by GDR, : typo

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by ringo, posted 09-01-2012 12:41 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(3)
Message 315 of 318 (675620)
10-13-2012 11:43 AM


Crashfrog writes:
Taliban activities in Pakistan have, so far, killed almost 40,000 men, women, and children. When they blow up weddings and funerals, it's on purpose.
I think we all agree that the Taliban is an evil organization. The problem is when we retaliate in a way that causes innocent death, then no matter how morally justified it may be in western eyes, in the eyes of those we are ostensibly helping we are no different.
If we really want to help those societies that are being brutalized by totalitarian regimes such as the Taliban then we have to show them a better way. Eventually people will rebel in big or little ways and over considerable time things will improve just as they have in our own societies, as imperfect as they are. The problem will not be resolved overnight or in one world leader's term in office.
It seems to me that we now have the tools and the technology to reach out to people who are being traumatized by the Taliban and even to those in the Taliban itself. As I said earlier we should be carpet bombing the place with computers and providing educational tools it their native languages via the internet. We should provide food supplies and the materials and knowledge to provide for themselves. This so called war should be aimed at winning the hearts and minds of the people and bombs just don't cut it.
AbE:This14 year old Pakistani girl has done more, IMHO to defeat the Taliban than any number of bombs that have been dropped. What a heroic young woman.
Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

  
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