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Author
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Topic: Which animals would populate the earth if the ark was real?
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Geology is irrelevant; try addressing the topic.
So the God character you market is just an incompetent Klutz. Got it. He's just a fool who even not too btight rats and birds outwit. Got it. And you either really haven't read the Bible or even those parts of the Bible I quoted for you or you don't believe the Bible in the first place. The God character in the story is very specific about His instructions about what to save and what to kill (even though the two stories are mutually exclusive, if one is true then the other is false).
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Genesis 6: 7 So the Lord said, I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have createdand with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the groundfor I regret that I have made them. 13 So God said to Noah, I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress[c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide and thirty cubits high.[d] 16 Make a roof for it, leaving below the roof an opening one cubit[e] high all around.[f] Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the arkyou and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.
Note in this myth the God is again very specific, He is going to commit total genocide. Also only two of every critter not seven of the clean critters as in the other myth. There is no loop hole for the God character, no "Oh and I won't kill any that just sneak in." And here is the other myth:
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Genesis 7: 7 The Lord then said to Noah, Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.
Now again that the God character is talking about pretty serious genocide and there is no wiggle room. Of course an incompetent klutz might overlook the critters that hid or sneak on the boat but there is nothing in the story found in the Bible you claim to believe to suggest that. So there is no support for there being founding populations larger than the set described in Genesis 7. Oh one more thing. Genesis 6 & 7 are also yet another example of contradictions in the Bible. According to Genesis 6 the Noah found in Gen 7 would have been dead for 477 years by the time the orders from God were given.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 765 by mindspawn, posted 10-10-2013 3:48 AM | | mindspawn has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Geology is irrelevant; try addressing the topic.
The point is that we do NOT see what we MUST see if either of the Biblical Flood stories were correct. You were the person that tried the old misdirection con-game by saying some birds might have flown on board or mice hidden in the ark when no one was looking. That is adding to the Bible, the Bible you claim to believe. But in reality it is just another of your attempts to deny reality to try to preserve your fantasy. Too bad that if either of the Bible stories were true we would have to see that Biblical Flood bottleneck signature and despite your attempts at wiggling away from truth, the signature just ain't there. The Biblical Floods have been refuted and anyone claiming they happened is simply untruthful.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 788 by mindspawn, posted 10-11-2013 5:15 AM | | mindspawn has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 807 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2013 4:12 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 808 of 991 (708653)
10-11-2013 4:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 807 by NoNukes
10-11-2013 4:12 PM
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Re: Geology is irrelevant; try addressing the topic.
Even funnier is him asking me to show the evidence that the bottleneck event signature is not seen. It's like "There's no hole in the target" and someone saying "Where is the evidence that there is no hole in the target." There is no fucking hole in the target dumbass. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 807 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2013 4:12 PM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 832 of 991 (708782)
10-14-2013 10:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 831 by NoNukes
10-14-2013 9:25 AM
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Re: Geology is irrelevant; try addressing the topic.
You continue to talk about rats and birds sneaking on the ark, when nobody has raised the issue of rats and birds having a bottleneck. Actually the Bible says that rats and birds should show a bottleneck signature and in the case of birds the bottleneck signature should vary dramatically between the clean birds or unclean birds.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 831 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2013 9:25 AM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Uniformity assumptions...
Again, all that even if true is once and yet again totally irrelevant to the topic and just another example of your admitted ignorance and also an attempt to misdirect peoples attention from your total failure to address the question. It is also totally refuted by the evidence of Oklo fission reactors. There we can compare the decayed products to what we see today and guess what? There is no difference. They are what is expected from 235U. So here is where we stand. If any of the Biblical Flood myth stories were true we MUST see a bottleneck event signature dating to 4500 years ago in EVERY critter descended from the critters on the Ark. Such a signature does not exist in any critter yet examined. Since that includes critters specifically listed as being on the Ark, the Biblical Flood myths have been refuted. Sorry Jack but it really is that simple.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 875 by mindspawn, posted 10-22-2013 8:48 AM | | mindspawn has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 889 of 991 (709230)
10-22-2013 8:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 888 by JonF
10-22-2013 8:39 PM
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Re: Uniformity assumptions...
And it still has jack shit to do with the topic which he/she continues to avoid.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 888 by JonF, posted 10-22-2013 8:39 PM | | JonF has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Uniformity assumptions...
mindspawn writes: Under compressed dating scales, you actually do see that bottleneck signature in some mammals. I am still waiting for you to show me some mammals that do not have the bottleneck signature. You keep making the claim, and keep failing to support your sweeping statements.
And once again what you post is simply not true AND another attempt to misdirect attention. Compressed dating scales is as stupid idea as that the Biblical Flood happened. It too, just like the Biblical Flood has been totally refuted for hundreds of years by EVERY branch of Science and no honest person today can make such a claim. And I have produced the evidence to support my position. Humans, cattle, pigs, goats, and the whole list of critters I have given you repeatedly do not show a bottle event neck signature dating to 4500 years ago. Remember, if the Biblical Flood myths were true we would have to see the same event signature in EVERY critter descended from the critters on the Ark. Just one such critter not showing the event signature totally refutes the Biblical Flood. Now I know you keep complaining whenever people point out that you are not telling the truth, but the solution to that is to stop posting falsehoods.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 895 by mindspawn, posted 10-24-2013 4:10 AM | | mindspawn has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 911 of 991 (709323)
10-24-2013 6:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 910 by NoNukes
10-24-2013 5:55 PM
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on how absurd mindspawns rantings can get
Do posters familiar with geology find mindspawns statements about the Mississippi just as ridiculous as I find his nuclear chemistry? You don't even have to know much about geology to understand two things; that mindspawns ideas are so silly that they have been nothing but laugh tracks for over two hundred years and that all it takes to disprove most of the is access to Google Earth and even the most basic education about the last 100 years in the US. A great example is to look at the Rio Grande Valley with Google Earth. There you can see literally hundreds of extinct channels of the Rio Grande over time. Look at the Mississippi and see how over the last 100 years we have to limit and control the flow and find all the OLD cutoff and channel remnants. And, too top it all off, absolutely none of mindspawns rabbit holes lead back to the topic he reuses to address, the fact that what we MUST see in the critters living today if the Biblical Flood myths were true is NOT seen.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 910 by NoNukes, posted 10-24-2013 5:55 PM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 989 of 991 (710659)
11-08-2013 9:03 AM
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If the Biblical floods happened here is what we MUST see.
jar writes: quote:
In the version of the myth found in Genesis 6 God instructs Noah to:
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19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."
In the version of the myth found in Genesis 7 we see similar (close but not the same) instructions:
quote:
2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.
We also find similar explanations of what will be destroyed in Genesis 6 it says:
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7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earthmen and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the airfor I am grieved that I have made them."
and in Genesis 7:
quote:
4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."
In both myths lots of critters get killed, in the myth found in Genesis 6 it seems to be talking about land animals and birds while the myth found in Genesis 7 goes even further and wipes out all living things. If we play mix and match and take the best scenario from each of the myths we might be able to claim that only the birds and land animals were wiped out based on the passage from the Genesis 6 story and that we have the larger saved population found in Genesis 7. Based on that mix and match game set we have a situation where all land animals and birds found today will be descended from a population that consisted of at most fourteen critters (seven pairs of clean animals and birds) and at worst case four critters (two pair of unclean animals). Now that is what I would call a real bottleneck. We know we can see bottlenecks in the genetic record; a great example is the one in Cheetahs but we even see them in the human genome and most other species. BUT... If the flood actually happened we would see a bottleneck in EVERY species of animal living on the land and EVERY bird and EVERY one of the bottlenecks show up in the SAME historical time period. Talk about a big RED flag. That bottleneck signature would be something every geneticists in the world would see. It would be like a neon sign, Broadway at midnight on New Years Eve. It would be something even a blind geneticist could see. So it seems to me to be a very simple test that will support or refute the Flood. If that genetic marker is there in EVERY species living on land or bird of the air, then there is support for the flood. It does not prove the flood happened but it would be very strong support. If on the other hand that genetic marker is NOT there, then the Flood is refuted.
And the bottleneck event signature is not seen.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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