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Author Topic:   White Privilege
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 210 of 276 (778928)
02-26-2016 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Modulous
02-26-2016 3:35 PM


Re: some privilege
Huh? There is no tacit insinuation of fault. If you feel that, I didn't put it there.
I don't feel it, I see it. And it's not just you.
It's the general way the concept is argued on the internet.
Consider it constructive criticism; the standard way of arguing against white people about thier privileges contains some counter-productive rhetoric.
It's a perfectly simple question, shaved down to two races and some simple facts.
I haven't even addressed that question.
I just realize that there are disadvantages that black people have that I don't have to deal with.
The fun thing about English is the way you can move words around to express the same state of affairs.
quote:
I just realize that there are privileges I have that black people don't.
It's actually more succinct, for what its worth.
Maybe by word count, but what we're talking about is:
quote:
Person A being deprived of something in favour of Person B because Person B has something Person A does not would be an example of Person B's privilege in relation to Person A.
Ugh, I'll just stick with: Person A has a disadvantage.
Nobody has asked you to check your privilege?
Check your privilege!
Nope, you are the first one.
So what am I supposed to actually do?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Modulous, posted 02-26-2016 3:35 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by RAZD, posted 02-26-2016 5:00 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 212 by Modulous, posted 02-26-2016 5:22 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 245 of 276 (779178)
03-01-2016 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Modulous
02-26-2016 5:22 PM


Re: some privilege
I've been discussing this almost as long as I've been discussing evolution.
Pardon me for being disadvantaged. I'm new to this.
Or should I say: Check your privilege. Not all of us have had the time to study this for so long.
I understand the counter-productive rhetoric.
Then why do you continue to use it?
You adopted that format when you completely misunderstood privilege. This was me correcting your misunderstanding using the format you chose. Makes you kind of look bad when you try and win an argument in this fashion.
I'm not trying to win an argument, I'm explaining to you why I don't care to use the concept.
Or: 'Person B has privilege.' Again we adopt a certain parsimony of word count, for what it's worth.
It isn't worth anything. In fact, your way is worth less to me.
Simplifying a complex concept into sound bites doesn't make the concept more palatable.
I'm pretty sure that's part of the trick, though.
I already told you. As the slogan implies, you should first engage in introspection to see if you can puzzle it out yourself. If not, try a 'kind, receptive response that doesn't necessarily accept guilt while simultaneously treating the concern seriously. Such as 'if I am exhibiting privilege I am oblivious, please help me understand'.'
So far, that's gotten me responses like:
quote:
Apparently you'd prefer to rail against my terrible crimes rather than deal with the moral argument. Because white men's feelings are the thing I should spend most of my effort here to preserve, right?
After all, I should be sensitive to the fact that white men, especially American white men have had race issues thrust upon them without their consent and its not their fault! Not their fault. They aren't guilty. And they can't talk about the subject until the person their opponent puts it in a 24pt font, prints it on glossy paper and mails it to every person in the world.
You need to check your privilege again. Not all of us have the luxury of caring about your moral dilemma.
Anyways, recall that I've admitted I don't get it, have acknowledged that I don't feel guilt, and have been asking questions to gain an understanding.
And I get met with basically "if you ain't with us, you're against us".
More of the trick, I guess.
Notice how it's practically impossible for me to have not needed to check my privilege, and that privilege is something that is so elusive that I may not even notice it at all, but it really is really there.
You know what else is hard to notice? Things that don't exist and are made up.
This whole thing is like some kind of Orwellian game, or something...
"No, it's not that that person has a disadvantage, it's that you have a privilege".
You're turning the tables around so that people don't consider that they need to help another person with a negative quality, but instead they need to notice and admit all the positive qualities that they themselves have.
Now, in principle I don't have much of a problem with that. But the approach of carelessly using rhetoric that makes people feel guilt, and then on top of that, turning that back around against them with the charge that their guilt is misplaced because you didn't mean to imply responsibility, coupled with the problem being something that they couldn't possibly have avoided, and backed up with them not noticing it not because it isn't prevalent, but because it is so elusive, well, that just sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. I'm still not buying it.
And regarding my "feelings", they don't have anything to do with it. I just figure that as a wealthy white guy you would want me on your side and have been trying to explain why the approach to this problem isn't working.
But again, since I'm not immediately with you then I must be doing everything I can to be against you.
Okay then, good luck. I'll stop trying to help.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Modulous, posted 02-26-2016 5:22 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Modulous, posted 03-01-2016 4:25 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
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