Religion or Science - How do they compare?

Of course, you can address any topic you like, but if you make it look like you are addressing my topic it should actually BE my topic.

Everybody is biased, everybody makes mistakes, scientists are human. That's the big benefit of the experimental method, to allow many heads to judge a scientific claim. I actually agree with jar about this.As for the Bible, that's why "lone wolves" are discouraged. When only one person reads the Bible and that one point of view is followed by others, cults develop. If many readers are consulted, it is more likely that the best interpretation will be the result. As a proverb in the Bible says, there is safety in many counsellors. Empirical science has the same basic principle.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Thank you GDR for giving the only sane messages on this subject.

But you are totally wrong to impute the topic to me. I'm talking about official DOCTRINE, not what individuals may do, or even whole biased segments of a church, which often violates official doctrine and the Bible.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Both statements are false in any case, but I would point you to my Message 387 to NoNukes for the explanation that I don't say "Roman Catholics" are not Christians but that Roman CatholiCISM and specifically the PAPACY are not Christian. Please try to get it right.

To understand how everything works.

Correct. Because words are subject to different interpretations and the interpretation with the most counsellors with the best reputations is the one passed on as traditional accepted doctrine. It is understood by all the best theologians that all parts of the Bible are to be read in the light of all the other parts.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Which describes you very nicely, jar, since you believe you are a Christian though the reality is that you are not because you don't believe the essential things that would make you a Christian.And you believe that the Pope is a Christian though the reality is that he is not, as I showed in Message 387.And you believe that you understand the Bible though the reality is that you do not.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

That's what I said. The statement as I wrote it is unquestionably true: IF belief is rightly invested in the revelation of the true Creator God, that revelation is a reliable source of important knowledge about the world... You may disagree with the premise's assumption of a true Creator God, but if the premise is true, the conclusion is true.Science is the best method of achieving reliable knowledge invented by fallen humanity, but the true God is nevertheless a reliable source of knowledge on whatever He reveals if rightly believed and understood.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

See Message 295 for my source.And see Message 309 for a list of New Testament descriptions of the attitude of the Jewish leaders toward Jesus if you think they wouldn't say anything negative about Him in their Talmud.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You are having a problem with ordinary simple logic.If the premise is true -- and it doesn't matter if you believe anything in the premise -- if it is true the conclusion is true. It doesn't matter who believes it, IF the premise is true the conclusion is true.The point is that there isn't just the one method of arriving at true knowledge of the world. There is empirical science and there is the revelation of God, and it matters not whether some people don't believe in God for the statement I made to be true.I simply don't understand why anyone would object to my qualification about rightly handling the evidence so others can verify it. Surely it is true on the face of it. I assumed it in my answer, I haven't changed anything by "accepting" your "version." And it isn't the case that science never gets anything wrong as I would expect you to recognize.

This is starting to get tediously irritating with stupid responses so I should take a break before it escalates.

There are lots of people who sit in churches every Sunday who eventually find out they were never saved. It's very common. Scripture says "Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith" and I suggest that's what you need to do. Being a member of a church is not proof of being a Christian.Everything I wrote about the Roman Catholic practices and the papacy in Message 385 is true, as I think even you would have to recognize.And theologians galore would find your readings of the Bible ridiculous. Calling mainstream Christianity a "Cult" wouldn't fly anywhere except at EvC.

You don't have to believe my logic, the logic itself stands as written and millions of Christians know it's true and that's enough for now.

Millions of Christians and at least thousands of Bible experts say it's God's revelation. We all agree and it doesn't matter that others don't. 0I'm not offering it to you to believe it, I'm just stating that the true God is a source of knowledge. Eventually, I'm sure of it, eventually, it's going to bring down the ToE.