AntiGod education should not be compulsary (even for non wealthy)

Could it be that things Christian are more and more becoming illegal? Anyhow how many of these never do wells went to a godless school? I daresay probably almost all? Then of course there's tv! Anyhow, as for me, and my house, we will chose God in education.

Science is not a religion __ Much of what is refered to as science actually is a belief system. We can say 'the experts know' and then show up in court and have our hired experts say whatever fits our case. Each side having a scientist, geologist, handwriting expert, or whatever claim they represent science. Each authority, years and years of training, yet saying what the particular side wants. Now, regardless of what either side claims, where the rub comes if the results are you are forced to have children deny their faith.

Does that mean if you don't get a revelation that you can't protect your children from having their beliefs ridiculed? Or does it mean if you get a revelation God was lying, and we really came from cockcroaches that we can hire experts to 'prove' it and throw the Lord's prayer out? (I know it was thrown out long ago). You don't have to send your kid's to her school. Liar? easy, if he says we created our selves he's a liar. We're not talking about science. we're talking about science falsely so called, as the bible puts it. We're talking about the veil hiding the beast, some love to insist is "science". I like science, and think it's wonderful to teach, what we poor humans have been able to perceive of Creation. How He made the stars, and Heavens and Earth in 7 days! How He's been there all through history. How he loves sex, and music, and beauty! Why He died for us, so we can now live forever. How it is good for a man and women to be together, and how children are His gift! How love is right, and hate for our fellowman is bad. And so on.

ok, so you assert that evolution is religious and that it should not be taught in schools.we show you how evolution is religion neutral.that doesn't matter, it is anti-god.we show you that evolution makes no claims on a creator.that doesn't matter. so you go back to making false comparisons.

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We're not talking about science. we're talking about science falsely so called, as the bible puts it. We're talking about the veil hiding the beast, some love to insist is "science". I like science, and think it's wonderful to teach, what we poor humans have been able to perceive of Creation. How He made the stars, and Heavens and Earth in 7 days! How He's been there all through history. How he loves sex, and music, and beauty! Why He died for us, so we can now live forever. How it is good for a man and women to be together, and how children are His gift! How love is right, and hate for our fellowman is bad. And so on.

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"as the bible puts it"!!! you are pushing religion now. you say it is wrong for a teacher like me to teach my subject. you say that science should teach us about what YOUR idea of a god has done for us. you and people like you are why some of our founding fathers created a bill of rights. like i have said before, and will probably say many times henceforth, the amendment that keeps any specific religious viewpoint, like yours, out of public institutions is the same amendment that provides protection and guarantees to you and yours that you can believe or not believe any religion you want. i teach in a public school. i teach science. what i teach has nothing to do with religion, period! i leave religion up to the family and the numerous churches, synagogs (sorry about the speelliing!) temples, etc. that seem to have no problem surviving, and thriving, in our pluralistic society.{Hey dude - Buy a couple of "shift" keys for your keyboard - AM}[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 02-07-2004]

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I'd vote to let'm learn what they like, but if you can't respect the majority as being Christian, then just don't make it mandatory!

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You do realize that the vast majority of Christians have no problem at all with science, right?People who's faith seems to rest entirely upon their own particular simplistic interpretation of the Protestant Christian Bible, are a very tiny minority among all Christians.The Catholic church is by far the largest Christian denomination and they have no problem with evolution, an old earth, or anything in science.

I stand corrected, you didn't say that the Founders were all christians.

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So do I have to see kids shot up with ritilin, so they can be numbed into listening to that godless education now as a result of spelling errors?

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Um, how is this relevant to the conversation?

Shows how the kids are being treated by this mandatory system. Hints the stuff taught may be part of the problem, and along with the general ill state of the education sytem, show theres more serious things to worry about than trying to pretend chat room posts are applications to teach in school. About the cocaine like drug, ritilin, Do you think it's fine foisting it on children? By the way, I looked up theory in a dictionary, and it says a theory is (like it or not evos)"speculation" "hypothesis to explain something;" So, don't try and make it sound like real science is at issue!

In refer. to what a theory is, I recommend you review the "Fact Theory Falacy" topic, and then post at the end of it, if you wish.For now, from my Webster's:Theory:Def. 4 - a formulation of apparent relationships or underlying principles of certain observed phenomena which has been verified to some degree; distinguished from hypothesis.Def. 6 - popularly, a mere hypothesis, conjecture, or guess; as, my theory is that he never got the letter.Def. 4 is that of a scientific theory.
Def. 6 is yours.But please take any further discussion of such to the above cited forum.Mellow Moose (not the cranky Admin mode)
{Edited to fix a couple typo's}[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 02-08-2004]

I submitted a dictionary definition, in the dictionary I had on hand. I guess you do not like it. Feel welcome to submit every dictionary in the world definition, I'll bet you averages are no different than the one I happened to have. I'm not hung up on it, it was just a reference book fact on hand, that should reflect a common view, of a common word. Whether you agree or not!-----
{Adminnemooseus adds by edit:

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Since this is, in part, an admin comment, and also to avoid another fairly off-topic message, I will slip into the "admin mode".

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You are conceding that your view was the common view. The common view is not the scientific view. Please take futher discusion to the topic that my non-admin counterpart supplied. The Moose dictionary, by the way, was the 4 inch thick Webster's Unabridged - Thank You}[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 02-08-2004]

It's a good sign when we can admit we are not perfect, and have made a mistake. Tks

Who's ridiculing belief? You're way off base here. Maybe you could show me in a science textbook where it says "people who believe in God are lame." A point that you have failed to defend. Evolution is science - it is an explanitory model that makes testable, repeatable claims. So, in fact, we are talking about science. Fine. One of the things we're able to percieve about Creation is that it's 13 billion years old, and that all life on this Earth is decended from a common ancestor through a process of random mutation and natural selection.If that doesn't jive with a book some guys wrote 2000 years ago, so what? What is, is. There's just no way you can look at the natural world and use it to support Creationist views. Absolutely none of that stuff depends on the Earth only being 6,000 years old. All of that stuff is still as true in a world that's 4 billion years old and where all species are linked through common ancestry.

Public education sytem where Christian beliefs are ridiculed, mocked, denied, and banned, and minimized! God and the Bible as well are not allowed in. My dictionary I have on hand (websters) defines an evolutionist as "a believer in the doctrine of evolution"! Don't ask me to support you indoctinating children with the anti Christ stuff! Sure some of it is science, but I want science that is not speculations mixed and welded together with science so kid's have to accept the new devil's version at the point of a gun so to speak. (Try keeping kids out of school, and see what happens) Let's give them religious freedom to actually be allowed to have some faith in their learning, and not tear it down and trample it underfoot. Or count a lot of people OUT as far as supporting it in ANY way!! Someone mentioned how the Catholics were without concern for the issue just a few christians. Well I was born a catholic, so you can't count them all out for the count!

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My dictionary I have on hand (websters) defines an evolutionist as "a believer in the doctrine of evolution"!

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Despite the fact that we have been having a glut of new topics (which I would like to see reduced), I'm here suggesting that it be best (and worthy) to bring the above to a new topic (in this same forum seems fine).I suggest the title "Argument by Dictionary Definition".Adminnemooseus

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Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
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I think you are confusing antireligious and religion-neutral here.

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Public education sytem where Christian beliefs are ridiculed, mocked, denied, and banned, and minimized! God and the Bible as well are not allowed in.

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The public school systems in the United States are technically religion-neutral. Their actions cannot lead to "an excessive entanglement with religion". However, from my experiences, Christianity is very prevalent in our public schools. We have a prayer group the prays around the flagpole every Friday as the other students come in to school in the morning. Since the school is not sponsoring this, they can do it. Fine. Fellowship of Christian Athletes is obviously a Christian associated organization that is supported as an activity in public schools. Most of the students and teachers are Christians and their ideals make it into their discussions with staff and students.I will admit that the above examples aren't that big of a deal, since I still have great scientific minds to work with. Minds that can see the separation between church and state and the separation between religion and science.

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My dictionary I have on hand (websters) defines an evolutionist as "a believer in the doctrine of evolution"!

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OK, what is your point. Webster's is not very scientific in its definitions of scientific words. Webster's definition of theory is incorrect. It makes theory sound like a hypothesis. Calling evolution a doctrine is up to the definition makers. They should have been more clear and called it "the theory of evolution".

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Don't ask me to support you indoctinating children with the anti Christ stuff!

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Once again with the anti-Christ stuff. Give it a rest, Leyshanko! One more time--Evolution is science. Science makes no claims on the supernatural. You do.

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Sure some of it is science, but I want science that is not speculations mixed and welded together with science so kid's have to accept the new devil's version at the point of a gun so to speak.

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We don't speculate in science. We make predictions. These predictions come from hypotheses that are tested. After testing, they are either supported or rejected. Evolution is a robust theory made up of many of these well-supported hypotheses. Once again you bring Christian mythology into the mix by comparing evolution, I think, to the devil. Remember, there were plenty of evil things going on before Darwin's time. In fact, I would say that we are better off, as far as the evil stuff goes, now than at any other time in the past. Sure, we have rampant commercialism and greed and lust, not that I have a problem with these things, but we also have more concrete human rights now than ever before. It is funny how the people that cry for justice from "an evil society" would take away the only things that keep our society civil--our civil rights.

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Let's give them religious freedom to actually be allowed to have some faith in their learning, and not tear it down and trample it underfoot. Or count a lot of people OUT as far as supporting it in ANY way!!

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The students do have religious freedoms. They are guaranteed in the First Ammendment. If you push Christianity on public schools, you then take away their First Ammendment rights, even if they are Christian. They might not be biblical literalists. Or they could be Mormon. Or etc., etc., etc. One view of faith being espoused by a government endangers all views of faith. Evolution does not need support from anyone. It is supported by tons of evidences gathered and verified in several different scientific fields of study. Just like I said before, evey bit of evidence tells us that Earth is not flat. Some people look at this evidence and say it is flat. Does that make them right? Is their viewpoint legit? Of course not. Can they still hold that viewpoint? Sure, but they cannot teach it. That would be academically dishonest. But I don't think you care about academics, gipper. You just care about your viewpoints, whether you can back them up with evidence or not.