Thanks for being honest and blunt as usual. I will agree that you have seen both sides of this. I have also. And I won't let organized religion brainwash me. If anything, I will be the one doing the brainwashing! Don't drink the Koolaid, Tangle. Let's go fishing.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
It all sounds logical in theory and we have the money to do it...with help from increased taxation...and if the wealthy and their private enterprize help out.
I fear war, though. Many other nations won't have the capability to adapt and many people will get restless, angry, and hungry. In order to be great again, we need to be kinder to the rest of the world or we will be judged accordingly.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
...But you need to ask yourself why god would abandon a believer?
First off, who is this believer?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
she seems to be trying to communicate. I've been studying these same arguments and my conclusion is that the one thing unique about Christianity over other belief paradigms is Christ Himself. Granted if we observed a room full of fervent believers pouring their passion out to an invisible Spirit (or spirit, as often happens) we could come up with many more logical explanations of what they were doing or attempting to do without concluding that the Spirit of God is the only "real" one or that Jesus is God incarnate or that Christianity is the only right way. If you and I actually knew each other and spent a day hanging out, we may gain a deeper insight into each others character and whether or not we felt compatibility as friends or whether we had two totally different vibes (spirits) or world views.
One of my oldest friends whom I went to private school with at age 13 has turned out to have a world view similar (perhaps) to yourself and moreso AZPaul3. Ironically, he is more of a secular humanist freethinker though he has a born again son in NY. They rarely agree on much except for the fact that they are blood. He and I have two different world views just as much as you and I or myself and jar or myself and AZPaul3. The issue with Faith, I think, is that she has shown so much of the character that irritates you and in all honesty, we don't know each other. Lately, she has shown more empathy and i think she is trying to build a bridge rather than a wall. Comments, Duane?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
Re: The solutions could be worse than the problem and nobody is addressing that
AZPaul3 writes:
The first carbon offset tax schemes were introduced in the ’60s. They never made it to a vote in either the House or Senate. Why? Because Big Carbon dangled $millions of re-election funds in front of the pol's faces and had the bills killed.
Truly the love of money is the root of all evil. We have met the enemy and he is us. Even if Satan was real, the evidence only shows that it is us. Even if Jesus is alive and is God incarnate waiting to commune with our souls, the evidence only shows that it is us. If God never existed, you still show evidence of a caring spirit. I have a friend very similar in philosophical thought to you. (as far as i can tell, anyway)
He has a FB Page: Globehackers and is articulate, educated, and open minded.
His name is Steven.
He believes that the world will likely end(in less than 100 years)..and laments the apathy of the people past and present. The future is uncertain, but he would agree with your assessment of big Carbon. Money and greed and Comfort prevailed over a consensus of common altruistic wisdom.
This is one of his videos:
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
Does that statement make sense to you if you substitute "Tooth Fairy" for "God"?
Not unless they are interchangeable.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
Since when do you care about evidence? You usually scoff at evidence.
I scoff at the idea that God would or could be known through evidence. My opponents seem to bring it up as the only way to test or confirm reality. Belief is enough for me. Not because I am squeezing my eyes shut really tight and praying that it's true, but because when I pray I feel a peace and a presence that to an onlooker would not necessarily be evident. All that they would see is an old man wishing to hit the jackpot.
Add by Edit: Unless they were my friends or someone I had met and I was shedding tears while praying for them rather than for myself. The jackpot analogy was actually a way I used to ask for a winning ticket...before the impression of God (or my rational mind) inside me told me to cut it out and accept reality. That I needed to throw entitlement away.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
Re: The solutions could be worse than the problem and nobody is addressing that
Humans might.
Same thing in this context. We are discussing how to preserve ourselves rather than just the planet. Unless Faith is willing to give her life up for the birds of the world.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
If by that you mean that its irrelevant whose name I say when having personal prayer and communion, I can only say that you and I don't share the same beliefs. I notice that jar had a similar line of thought earlier...let me see if i can find and quote it...
jar writes:
I can pray to God or Allah or Ganesha or Coyote or Raven or Shiva or Vishnu and it is all the same. If there is any answer it is the content that is relevant and important, not the source.
it helps me to start my prayer along the lines of Dear God, Creator of all seen and unseen..through whose Son Jesus Christ I am able to commune and relate...(and then I might go on to pray for someone else...the prayers are better when I don't focus on myself.) In that regard, I see jars argument that the content (and the doing) of a prayer is better than simply patronizing the Source. I would argue, however, that by acknowledging the source (Jesus) as real and alive and listening to me, helps me to realize my responsibilities, shortcomings, and mission. Praying to the spaghetti monster, mother earth Gaia princess or Allah most merciful won't work for me. And i would further argue that if my Islamic fiend prays and mentions Allah most merciful, he would do well to recognize the necessity of our mediator. Jesus fits in with all religions if they give Him some room.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
Once you find God(perhaps in that place you have yet to look) you can safely "throw Him away" if you insist.
ringo writes:
Does that statement make sense to you if you substitute "Tooth Fairy" for "God"?
How about substituting Playboy centerfold for God? Many have "worshipped" them before and yet throw them away casually later. Is God as unknowable as a picture? This is the question to ask yourself. Stile seems to be looking everywhere possible, but maybe he either doesn't care to get too deep with Who he is looking for, (if found) or approaches the issue as a science experiment.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
The challenge is to stop the madness that is current Conservatism and Neo-Fascism and spend our wealth on improving the general quality of life.
Really? How are you gonna do it? More taxes? That will go over like a lead balloon. the people are in debt enough as it is. We don't want to spend more on anything that puts us in long term debt beyond where we already are. I don't care if it saves the planet or not...if it costs too much, we won't vote for it.
This wealth that you claim we have has already got a lien on it.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
If so, it will have to come out of everyone's hide in proportion to what they can afford to spend. We are not gonna simply soak the middle class to clean it up for everyone.
Enough squabbling, though. How much do you think it will cost? Faith mentions the idea that the Asian Nations are polluting now more than the US is. Why cant they be made to pay based on their proportionate contribution to the problem? The US has already spent a lot of money in order to regulate the environmental footprint from its industrial base. Granted the Trump administration seeks to revisit fossil fuel production from domestic oil, natural gas, and coal...which will increase the US responsibility...and we can own up to our part. What we won't stand for is to fall back into the historical precedent of the US cleaning up 75% of the planet's mess by ourselves. The bill will get paid proportionately to each countries current contribution to the problem and not by one aging superpower who is perceived as responsible for everything.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
And again, the way this all gets discussed continues to be disturbing.
I will agree with you there. Though a political moderate and no big fan of Trump, I can see the overall argument as to where this conversation is headed. jar is usually rather critical of the US past policies in general, while entirely too kind to the rest of the world. He used to always disagree with me regarding the broken treaties which the US made with the Indians back two centuries ago and how if it were him, the honor of restoring those treaties and giving the land back to the Indians (even at this 21st-century point in time) would be the honorable thing to do. The whole idea annoye me chiefly because I refused to take responsibility for the behavior of my ancestors. This whole Clean Up The Planet mess falls in the same category. jar claims that the US and the Western nations did most of the damage. Thus the US middle class alone needs to clean up the planet because our country is supposedly still rich. Nevermind that Japan is near our standard of living. Nevermind that China is rapidly getting there and is now a major polluter. In fact, I predict that China will ultimately cause more damage to the planet than the US ever did, due to their 1 billion people population. So what do you think, Faith? Should the bill be spread out over humanity (those who can afford it) or should it just fall on the lap of the USA?
On a side note, hot button issues such as these are prophecied to occur. Critics will scoff at the whole idea that we are in the last days and that we are approaching a major series of wars, famines, and gloom & doom judgment.
My question to you personally is this: How on the one hand you defend US policies and the rights to do business successfully with the idea and belief in a Rapture of the Church? Don't you realize that if belief in this Rapture is in any way true, the people who go won't just go simply because they believe in Jesus Christ and trust Him? They will be judged based on their actions. It won't matter whether Barack Obama or Donald Trump was the better man with a better ideology. All that will matter is what the people individually and collectively chose to do and the impact upon humanity.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
And get this straight Phat. The pain will not be shared equally. The US, in particular, will suffer far more than most other countries simply because we are among the most industrialized, have no concept of how to live without our Smart Phones, let our infrastructure decay and have already destroyed much of essential resources that would help mitigate the pain.
Have you ever read the Bible, jar? Don't you know that many of the Biblical Christians see the US in prophecy, under the title of Mystery Babylon The Great? Judgment ultimately falls on Mystery Babylon.
quote:1. End-times Babylon is a great nation that receives judgment for its many sins.
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. (Rev. 18:2)
2. This nation is a superpower and has world dominance and importance. It has also spread its corruption to the world.
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her. (Rev. 18:3) (Think of all the deals the US has made with dictators at the expense of the common people)
3. The merchants of the world are made rich through trading with this nation. This nation consumes huge amounts of goods.
And the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. (Rev. 18:3)
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. (Rev. 18:11—13)
4. This nation is proud and arrogant and considers herself to be invincible and the greatest nation on earth.
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. (Rev. 18:7)(and isn't this the current attitude of many people? Are today's modern conservatives like this? They want to build walls and increase the power of the military...perceiving the enemy to be among the dreaded globalists and Leftists out there waiting to bring the country down. And yet ironically, most liberals see our only solution for the future to be cooperation with the rest of the world.)
5. This nation is typified by an extravagant lifestyle.
And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! (Rev. 18:16)
6. Other nations are controlled by her and given great riches by her.
And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her. (Rev. 18:9) 7. This nation is a coastal nation, with deepwater ports and much international trade.
And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea stood afar off. (Rev. 18:17)
8. This nation has defenses in the heavens.
Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she should fortify the height of her strength, yet from me shall spoilers come unto her, saith the Lord. (Jer. 51:53)
The irony is deep. The conservatives want a strong country. They elected the current president due to populist sentiment.
USA Today Editorial writes:
Ever since World War II, white evangelicals in the United States have waged a desperate and largely failing war against thickening walls of separation between church and state, the removal of Christianity from public schools, the growing ethnic and religious diversity of the country, the intrusion of the federal government into their everyday lives (especially as it pertains to desegregation and civil rights), and legalized abortion.(...)In the 1980s, Jerry Falwell Sr. and other conservative evangelicals concerned about this moral drift devised a political playbook to win back the culture and restore America to its supposedly Christian origins. It is a playbook that has too often led its followers toward nativism, xenophobia, racism, and intolerance. It is a playbook that divides rather than unites.
The social and cultural changes of the Obama administration particularly regarding human sexuality sent conservative evangelicals into a state of panic. They saw Donald Trump as the GOP candidate best suited to protect them from the forces working to undermine the values of the world they once knew.
But these anxieties extend even deeper into the American past. They are the logical result of 300 years from the Puritans to the American Revolution, and from nativism to fundamentalism of evangelical fears about the direction in which their Christian nation was moving.
The politics of fear inevitably results in a quest for power. Clergymen and religious leaders have, at least since Billy Graham, regularly visited the White House to advise the president. Like members of the king's court during the late Middle Ages and the Renaissance, who sought influence and worldly approval by flattering the monarch rather than prophetically speaking truth to power, Trump’s court evangelicals boast about their unprecedented access to the president and exalt him for his faith-friendly policies.
Evangelical support for Donald Trump is also rooted in nostalgia for a bygone Christian golden age. Instead of doing the hard work necessary for engaging a more diverse society with the claims of Christian orthodoxy, evangelicals are intellectually lazy, preferring to respond to cultural change by trying to reclaim a world that is rapidly disappearing and has little chance of ever coming back.
The Left ideology also predicts that the planet itself is in the "last days" due to global warming and climate change. Their solution is for the world to unite in order to solve these problems.
The evangelical conservatives see this as a one-world government and many see scripture warning that antichrist will appear during such times.
So there we have it. The stage is set. Either the US middle class pays the bill and helps the planet sacrificially giving up nearly all we have to do so...or, according to jar, the rest of the world won't pay. Yet we all go down with the ship. Comments?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
Burn the future of our children, the future of our species. We got ours and we don’t care!
This is what I fear the evangelical base will think. They will believe that Jesus will come and rescue them and that only the godless people will get left behind. Personally, I believe that A just and loving God wouldn't simply whisk a bunch of evangelicals into the night sky simply because there was too much hard work left to clean up the place. My initial argument with jar was about who was gonna get stuck with the bill. If what he claims is true and it is the US Middle class, then I predict that the populists will rise yet again and start a war. Which won't help the carbon footprint either.
I also predict that these evangelical populists will be hated by all of the rest of the rational people...and that the world will unite without them.
The only question in my mind is whether or not some of us will volunteer to help clean up and in so doing show the real love that we believe God has for *all* of us or whether we will hide behind gated communities, hostile churches, and political ideologies and give the rest of the world a legitimate reason to hate us.
I think God wants One people to come out of all of this. They won't be religious in the traditional sense. But they will show love towards others...
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness. ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
Don't drink the Koolaid, Tangle. Let's go fishing.
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