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Author Topic:   Jerry Falwell dead.
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 151 of 224 (401028)
05-17-2007 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Rahvin
05-17-2007 8:47 PM


Re: A reply to nemesis's "caveat"
Rahvin writes:

Am I anti-Christian? Only the segment of Christians who hold such horrific ideals. I'd be against anyone of any religion who thinks the same.

So you're anti Jehovah god, anti Jesus, anti Paul, apostle of Jesus who were all anti-gay being the ones who denounced homosexuality and advocated the male leadership role so as to influence Falwell to preach what these advocated concerning gays and womens lib? (I include Jesus since he always conformed to the will of his Father, Jehovah god.) I could include, of course include nearly all cultures since the recording of history.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Rahvin, posted 05-17-2007 8:47 PM Rahvin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Rahvin, posted 05-17-2007 10:48 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
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 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 05-18-2007 1:56 AM Buzsaw has responded

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 152 of 224 (401031)
05-17-2007 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Buzsaw
05-17-2007 10:09 PM


Re: A reply to nemesis's "caveat"
Goddammit, I said I wasn't going to reply to you, and here I go already.

So you're anti Jehovah god, anti Jesus, anti Paul, apostle of Jesus who were all anti-gay being the ones who denounced homosexuality and advocated the male leadership role so as to influence Falwell to preach what these advocated concerning gays and womens lib? (I include Jesus since he always conformed to the will of his Father, Jehovah god.) I could include, of course include nearly all cultures since the recording of history.

The versions of them that espouse anti-homosexuality, genocide, torture, suppression of women for the sin of not posessing a [i]penis,[i] and a thousand other atrocities in the Bible?

YES!!!! And if you aren't, then you are an immoral, disgusting excuse for a human being. Just like Falwell was.

Of course, there are many, many examples of civilizations, most of whom we espouse as the pinnacles of ancient humanity, that did NOT persecute homosexuality. Take the Greeks, for example. Or the Romans. There are more. Hell, homosexuality was even widely accepted in Christian Europe in the Renaissance, widely known as one of the brightest ages in human history. Leonardo Da Vinci had at least one gay lover. Go read a few history books.

In any case, the crimes against humanity committed by past civilizations do not excuse such acts today. Or do you seriously suggest that it's okay to kill the rest of the Jews because, what the hell, Germany already did it!

I;ve already said that I don't care that Falwell hid behind the Bible to spew his hatred of gays and others. I don;t care if you do it, either, or anyone else.

I get along just fine with Christians like my family, or Jar, or my girlfriend, or many others who understand that some of the things espoused in the Bible are simply immoral and wrong. Persecuting someone (or worse, espousing eternal fucking torture) for their sexual orientation, their gender, the color of their skin, (all of which would be things included by the very god who supposedly created them) or their lack of belief in your specific sky pixie is, flatly, WRONG, and I don;t care how many Bible verses you trot out because I'm not a Christian (and not all Christians agree with you, anyway). To me, it's just a book, and the parts you quote supporting persecution of gays and women are no better than Mein Kampf.

You know, Hitler quoted the Bible a lot, too. Ever read Mein Kampf? I've read some. It's tough, because it makes you feel sick, but the guy really thought he was doing God's work. No, he was not an Atheist. What he did was still disgustingly evil, even if he had Biblical support (or even just thought he did...really, it doesn't matter).

I'm just going to wrap this up. Buz, I am against anyone who says "you are evil" or "you are bringing Gods wrath on the rest of us" or "sit down and shut up" or "you should die" because of that persons skin color, gender, religion, lack of religion, sexual orientation, or hair color. If that means I'm against you, so be it. If that means I'm against your God, I wouldn't like him anyway, and I'd rather burn in hell than follow an immoral asshole like the one you apparently follow, even if he existed. The Christians I know would call yours a despicable, false version of the God of the Bible.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5399
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 153 of 224 (401034)
05-17-2007 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Buzsaw
05-17-2007 10:09 PM


Re: A reply to nemesis's "caveat"
I include Jesus since he always conformed to the will of his Father....

Ummm...wasn't it this Jesus who said "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." ?? And that in reference to Leviticus?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Buzsaw, posted 05-17-2007 10:09 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 461 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 154 of 224 (401044)
05-18-2007 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Thugpreacha
05-17-2007 6:13 PM


Re: Some Notable Condolences
quote:
Whats that supposed to mean? Who is my team?

Conservative Christians.

quote:
Who are you people?

Same as above.

quote:
I wouldn't spew hatred for Madelyn Murray O'Hare, who caused a lot of damage herself in her day.

Oh? What sort of damage did she do?


This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 461 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 155 of 224 (401045)
05-18-2007 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Hyroglyphx
05-17-2007 6:55 PM


Re: A caveat
quote:
Jerry Falwell hurt this country deeply? I was unaware that Rev. Falwell had enough influence to hurt the country deeply. As far as I can tell, he wasnt so much as a blip on the radar screen. I think the indelible stain you envision for Falwell is largely manifested in your mind.

Dude, Falwell was on the maintream TV news shows practically every other day representing the Christian viewpoint.

He founded the Moral Majority right wing relligious lobby group.

He published a pseudo-documentary accusing the Clintons of criminal wrongdoing that sold 150,000 copies despite being debunked by all legitimate investigative bodies.

Shall I go on? I could mention the racism and homophobia he advocated.

He was a disease

quote:
And who/what is the cure?

The cure?

Our populace needs to stop feeling squeamish about loudly and repeatedly condemning religious ignorance and bigotry even when it comes from within our own religion.

The only way people free themselves from religious ignorance and bigotry is through exposure to people who are different than we are and through education.

It is no surprise that people in culturally-diverse cities tend to be less bigoted towards people no like them.

It is no surprise that people who are more highly educated tend to be more open to new and different ideas, and more open to changing their minds.

Insular communities make for xenophobia.

Edited by nator, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 461 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 156 of 224 (401046)
05-18-2007 1:33 AM


You don't like comparisons to Hitler?
OK, then, if not Hitler, how about MacCarthy, except nobody in the media not the government ever stood up to him and ran him out of town like they did MacCarthy.

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15466
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 157 of 224 (401051)
05-18-2007 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Buzsaw
05-17-2007 10:09 PM


Re: A reply to nemesis's "caveat"
quote:

So you're anti Jehovah god, anti Jesus, anti Paul, apostle of Jesus who were all anti-gay being the ones who denounced homosexuality

Where did Jesus denounce homosexuality ? Are you making things up again ?

(And if you care so much about God why do you keep mangling His name ?)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Buzsaw, posted 05-17-2007 10:09 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2007 5:43 PM PaulK has responded

    
mark24
Member (Idle past 3487 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 158 of 224 (401061)
05-18-2007 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Nuggin
05-17-2007 9:01 PM


Re: A caveat
Nuggin,

I suggest you google the term and hope for a site that doesn't have pictures

Ah, yes, I see... It can easily happen. :eek:

Mark


There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Nuggin, posted 05-17-2007 9:01 PM Nuggin has not yet responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5399
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 159 of 224 (401079)
05-18-2007 10:31 AM


This just in: Rev. Falwell is still dead!

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by subbie, posted 05-18-2007 10:37 AM Coragyps has not yet responded
 Message 161 by Rahvin, posted 05-18-2007 12:28 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
subbie
Member (Idle past 35 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 160 of 224 (401081)
05-18-2007 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Coragyps
05-18-2007 10:31 AM


This just in: Rev. Falwell is still dead!

Thank you, Chevy Chase.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Coragyps, posted 05-18-2007 10:31 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 161 of 224 (401117)
05-18-2007 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Coragyps
05-18-2007 10:31 AM


"It has now been six weeks since Saddam Hussein was killed by a pack of wild boars, and the world is still glad to be rid of him..."

Wait, wait. Wrong inhuman asshole.

Still glad Falwell is dead.


Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Coragyps, posted 05-18-2007 10:31 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5829
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 162 of 224 (401233)
05-18-2007 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Buzsaw
05-16-2007 1:51 AM


Re: A caveat
I apologize for not quoting you. For some bizarre reason these computers won't allow it..... ?? :confused:??

In any case, yes, its good to see you too.

As for Falwell, I said, in an opening post, there is something about him that was unsound to me. But then again, there is much unsound about me as well, so who am I to judge? But even though I feel this way, I can't help but to say many good things on his behalf. For instance, he seems to have been genuine in his convictions. I hold people in high regards for holding to their convictions, even if I feel they are misguided. For instance, I believe that somebody like Osama bin Laden is genuine, for however demonically misguided the man is. That illicit's some measure of respect from me.

*And no, I'm not comparing Falwell to bin Laden*

You said to someone else in an earlier post that you suspect their biggest problem is really with biblical teachings-- not so much with Falwell himself. In a sense he is the patsy, or as you said, the "fall guy." And this probably because he was vocal about his convictions.

How Falwell felt about homosexuality is probably the single greatest thing that his detractors denigrate him for. But I, like you, have had gay friends come and go through my life. I certainly don't treat them any differently than anyone else. Having said that, I won't hesitate to inform them how I feel about homosexuality if and when the subject comes up. The problem, I think, is that many Christians view homosexuality in worse terms than, say, fornication. But the Bible is very clear that ALL sexual sin is wrong and should be avoided for their own sex. As far as I can tell, there is none that is considered categorically worse than the other. Yet, for some reason, many Christians blast homosexuals with more ferosity than another form of sexual sin. Many Christians single homosexuality as being "more" sinful. I think this is the wrong attitude to have. Everybody knows that if you cause people to have a stigma, they are more resistant to listening to you preach the gospel truth.

My own philosophy is in line with the old adage, "hate the sin, love the sinner." At the opposite end of the spectrum, we have compromisers. They love the sinner so much that they overlook the sin. After time they end up compromising their basest set of beliefs in search for a very watered-down gospel.

Our pulpits need more balance and less extremism in either direction. Would you concur with this assessment?


"God is like the sun. You can't look at it. But without it you can't look at anything else." -G.K. Chesterton

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2007 1:51 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 163 of 224 (401235)
05-18-2007 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Hyroglyphx
05-18-2007 6:12 PM


Re: A caveat
Yet, for some reason, many Christians blast homosexuals with more ferosity than another form of sexual sin. Many Christians single homosexuality as being "more" sinful. I think this is the wrong attitude to have.

Not "for some reason;" because people like Falwell made an industry out of rousing people into homophobia. People like Falwell told their congregations that the gay couple down the street wasn't just two men with a weird lifestyle - they were predators who were coming after your children unless you did everything in your power to run them out of town as soon as possible - "oh, and by the way, buy my book that will tell you just how to do that."

Yeah. "For some reason." You're amazing, Nem. So much just completely escapes your notice.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-18-2007 6:12 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-20-2007 1:36 PM crashfrog has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17452
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 164 of 224 (401236)
05-18-2007 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Hyroglyphx
05-18-2007 6:12 PM


nemesis_juggernaut writes:

Yet, for some reason, many Christians blast homosexuals with more ferosity than another form of sexual sin.

The (rabid) hatred of homosexuality by some professing "Christians" ought to be a sign unto you that there is something wrong with their "Christianity".

If they are wrong about homosexuality (and they are), how can you trust anything they say?


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3767
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 165 of 224 (401246)
05-18-2007 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by subbie
05-18-2007 10:37 AM


Thank you, Chevy Chase.
Thank you, Chevy Chase.

See www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=14&t=1499&m=13#13 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=14&t=1499&m=13#13">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=14&t=1499&m=13#13

:)Moose:)


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for — but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush-Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him." - Hunter S. Thompson

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


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