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Author Topic:   Ever lasting life with or without God.
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4089 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 35 of 48 (39922)
05-13-2003 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Arren Esthil
05-12-2003 10:55 PM


quote:
I don't think Creationists "play the Faith card" as a last resort argument.
Well, you may not think that, but when Brian said that, he was not speaking generally. He was describing what Mike the Wiz did. Mike the Wiz, a creationist, made some statements, couldn't defend those statements, and--only after it became clear that he couldn't defend anything he said--then he played his faith card.
I agree with Brian that this is pretty typical behavior for Creationists. I don't know how you can't, but even if you can't see it generally, to deny it happens after it just happened in this thread is just inaccurate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Arren Esthil, posted 05-12-2003 10:55 PM Arren Esthil has not replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4089 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 36 of 48 (39925)
05-13-2003 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by mike the wiz
05-11-2003 7:18 PM


quote:
ok how about the fbi man who said it was documented as a miracle that he recieved a new body part. ok one testimony may look silly but when you hear of dozens you start asking 'why would these people who do not benefit in any way from lying tell us these things.'
I spent a couple years in the charismatic movement, and even saw a couple little things I would classify as supernatural happen. However, I never met one person I would describe as honest who had actually witnessed one of these amazing events, such as an FBI man growing a new body part. Who were these doctors? Why was there no newspaper reports?
Things like this story never happened. You dismiss much better documented stories from this Sai Baba guy, while believing hearsay from TBN, which represents a network of people who would love to document an actual overwhelming miracle like a new body part, but have never been able to. People have followed up on stories by Benny Hinn and Kathryn Kuhlmann, and I have been to several healing meetings, and I have never seen one genuine miracle turn out to be true.
I'm not even saying one or two miracles didn't happen. I am saying that the ones you described didn't happen, and I have much better reasons for that than your reasons for dismissing Sai Baba, which is because you don't agree with him religiously. I think highly unusual, supernatural things happen on a regular basis, and I do know of honest people who have told me absolutely incredible stories, including my couple of experiences, but I know of no one in the charismatic movement (TBN's circle of people)like that, and the people I know with such stories are as likely to be non-Christian as Christian..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by mike the wiz, posted 05-11-2003 7:18 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by NosyNed, posted 05-13-2003 11:22 AM truthlover has replied

truthlover
Member (Idle past 4089 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 38 of 48 (39964)
05-13-2003 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by NosyNed
05-13-2003 11:22 AM


Re: Unusual
quote:
If they do it's too bad we can't figure out a way of dealing with them.
I don't have a suggestion for dealing with them. It's just that some stories are pretty believable, and several have happened to me, so they seem believable to me.
I guess the most significant one I ever experienced was a letter from my sister explaining a progressive infection in my nephew (age 2) that had blinded him in one eye and cost him 50% of the vision in the other. I and two friends prayed for him, and I felt an immediate relief as I prayed. Something was nagging at me, though, like we weren't getting all the way through (whatever that means--it was just a feeling), and we prayed for a long time, but that "not quite done" feeling never went away.
I got a letter from my sister a week later saying his infection had unexpectedly disappeared, and his vision had returned 100% in both eyes, but the infection hadn't quite gone away in one eye. They treated that for the next six months till it was gone, but his eyesight stayed at 100% the whole time.
quote:
There doesn't seem to be any handle to separate them from the mistakes in perception, hoaxes and pure delusions that also happen.
I can't separate them, either, not even the one I just gave. It could have been coincidence, I guess, but I live a lot by those kind of feelings, and they are, at least to me, astonishingly reliable.
Another example. There is a check I get once a month at my business that is quite large. It comes from California, and it is handwritten, so I take it to the branch of my bank that knows me best, even though they're not closest, because they don't put a hold on the check. I like to drive on a wooded road to that bank, even though it's a little longer, because I like the drive. Last month, I felt like I shouldn't. I went that direction, anyway, for two blocks, but I felt even more I shouldn't, so I made a turn and went the short way through town.
From the bank, I was going to another office by my house to set up a computer for a friend. Halfway there it dawned on me that he might not be there, and the office might be locked. I called his cell phone, and I found out he had left and was thirty seconds up the road from me. He pulled off on the side of the road, and I picked up the key from him. Had I gone the long way to the bank, I would have missed him. He'd have turned right where I met him and headed down a highway.
Small thing, but those small things happen to me a lot when I follow those feelings. With time, I could produce dozens of such incidents.
Chance? Maybe, but I doubt it.
How do we get a handle on it? I don't know anything about getting a handle on it. I teach my kids not to ignore those gut feelings, and I recommend to others they learn to be spiritual.
I don't know that any of my experiences proves anything to anyone but me. I do know that it's a rare bird who can write such experiences off when it happens to them.
We're sorry, but something went wrong (500) is a web site that collects "transcendental" experiences by scientists. I am not presenting it as proof of those experiences, but such experiences are hard to ignore, scientist or not, and even scientists tend to get spiritual when something like that happens to them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by NosyNed, posted 05-13-2003 11:22 AM NosyNed has not replied

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