Ever lasting life with or without God.

Brian, you're also allowing the "examples" to stand. Without any reasonable documentation at all. The best guess is that they didn't happen as stated.

That's A flood not the flood. But it is one suggestion for the orgin of the flood myths in the area.There are some topics here that cover the flood, you could go there is you want to discuss it. It just didn't happen.

I know that some here are, or at least appear to be, trying to convince others to "abandon" their faith. But that shouldn't be (and I think mostly isn't) the intent. It is also absolutly NOT necessary for a "creationist" to lose his/her faith in order to understand the evidence and logic and conclusions being presented. What is necessary is that the "creationist" finally understand that his/her faith is NOT dependent on a literaly reading of every last blooming bit of the Bible. That the true message there is NOT one that has anything to do with a physical, natural scientific descriptioin of the real world.It is the simplistic twisting of the Scriptures that they have to give up and that's all. Most individuals of faith manage it fine. A few have gotten very hung up on some dangerous ideas.We are asking them to get out and stay out of the schools. Others are asking them to get out of their churchs before they do any more damage.Believing that your God created everything is one thing. Deciding that you will tell Him exactly how He did that is something else. And using a book that is intended for other things as the reason for telling Him is really something else.

If they do it's too bad we can't figure out a way of dealing with them. There doesn't seem to be any handle to separate them from the mistakes in perception, hoaxes and pure delusions that also happen.The faith based approach doesn't seem to deal with it well because it has no way of doing the separation.The scienctific approach can't get a handle on it because it is so unreproducible. And I guess being supernatural defined to be outside of it's purvue.I don't know of any third way that can manage it. Any ideas?