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Author Topic:   Insect diversity falsifies the worldwide flood.
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 38 of 148 (338609)
08-08-2006 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
07-03-2006 9:37 PM


Ad hoc explanations
Faith writes:
it's likely in any case that the number of species involved was appreciably smaller than the number of species countable today, and that those today evolved from the ones on the ark; and certainly very likely that the more delicate or finicky species weren't there, but must have evolved since (Why not? You DO believe in evolution don't you?
Yes, we think evolution is what happened. But evolution of all of today's insect species from a base small enough to fit on the Ark more or less unnoticed, in just over 4000 years, is impossible. Such a development would take a lot of time, in the order of millions of years.
OR that God saved insects in some fashion completely apart from Noah, and He has given us no clue how.
Or that God created the earth and everything on it yesterday, complete with our memories and history records and all that. Tell me how we should choose which of the two theories to believe. Your theory and mine are examples of ad hoc explanations. As hoc explanations are a no-no in rational debate.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 07-03-2006 9:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 08-08-2006 5:05 PM Parasomnium has replied
 Message 40 by randman, posted 08-08-2006 5:13 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 47 of 148 (338750)
08-09-2006 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
08-08-2006 5:05 PM


Re: Ad hoc explanations
Faith writes:
Has anybody calculated it out? Seems to me I've read that genetic experiments with insects, such as with fruit flies, produce changes quite rapidly.
But they're still fruit flies. (Jeepers creepers, I am beginning to sound like a creationist!) What you are suggesting is that just short of a million insect species - and that's only the species we know, there might be many more we have not discovered yet - have evolved from a small base of insects in about 4000 years.
You are asking if anybody has done some calculations on this. Well, it turns out the answer is yes. In this study you can see that speciation rates are of the order of less than one to a few species per million years.
Even if we assume that the small base on the Ark was as large as half of all insect species extant now, then that would still mean a speciation rate of about 125 species per year. That's a far cry from what scientific studies like the one I mentioned are telling us.
Also there would have been more potential for change back then, more genetic possibilities.
How so? What's your basis for this assertion?
As for your ad hoc explanation and mine, the one to be chosen is the one that fits with the Bible. Yours doesn't. Mine may not either, but that's the idea anyway
Only if the Bible is true. Which it can't be, because it was only created yesterday. (Or rather, the day before yesterday. How time flies when you're having fun...)
But joking aside, if that's your answer, then my question becomes: why should we choose the Bible as the touch stone for our theories, and not ancient Egyptian, Chinese, or Indian creation myths, for example? Or other "holy" texts of non-Christian religions still in sway?
Edited by Parasomnium, : Being more precise about the order of magnitude of speciation rates.
Edited by Parasomnium, : Also being more precise about the creation date of the Bible.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 08-08-2006 5:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 08-10-2006 9:58 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 78 of 148 (339056)
08-10-2006 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by kuresu
08-10-2006 6:45 PM


Showing dBCodes
Kuresu,
To show someone how to use dBCodes, all you have to do is produce a real example and tell them to use the peek button.
Parasomnium writes:
hit the peek button now to see the dBCodes of this quote box

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by kuresu, posted 08-10-2006 6:45 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by kuresu, posted 08-10-2006 7:02 PM Parasomnium has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 82 of 148 (339064)
08-10-2006 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by kuresu
08-10-2006 7:02 PM


Re: Showing dBCodes
Well, next time you can save yourself the trouble of going through all that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by kuresu, posted 08-10-2006 7:02 PM kuresu has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 83 of 148 (339066)
08-10-2006 7:16 PM


Faith?
Have you thought about my message Message 47?
Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given.

  
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